Here's a hypothetical scenario just for fun

[Proud Cosmopolitan]

If anyone could go back in time and kill a university student who would later become the AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI and make it look accidental, would they?


This is a spinoff about the hypothetical "going back in time and killing Hitler" scenarios.

[uwot]

If anyone could go back in time and kill a university student who would later become the AYATOLLAH KHOMEINI and make it look accidental, would they?

Crikey. Is that the sort of thing people do for fun? Personally, it's not my cup of tea, but I might have a word with the lecturers.

[Blaggard]

I'd go back in time and kill Jesus and on the return trip I'd take out Mohammed with a 12 bore, basically because it would at least mean there were less wars.

No point taking out the middle men, if you are going to commit murder go for the source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkIS3G64ug0

[Proud Cosmopolitan]

Let me explain, this scenario is inspired by all the "would you go back in time to kill Hitler" scenarios I had seen on philosophy message boards and I also was not fan of the Ayatollah and thought that the world would be better off had things such as the Iranian hostage incident never happened. As far as a scenario about "would you go back in time to kill Osama Bin Laden before he could lead a certain terrorist group?" I am also sure the world would also be better off had things such as "9 /11" also never happened.

[Blaggard]

You should read up on the history did you know for example the CIA incited a coup d'etait to overthrow the Iranian Prime Minister who was democratically elected, at the behest of BP (British Petroleum) which was in danger of losing valuable oil concessions that Iran had given it in return for certain diplomatic and economic aid. The CIA installed a Shah who was pro west and the oil flow continued with the subsidies.

Known as TPAJAX in the US and generally as operation ajax:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Irani ... 7%C3%A9tat

The coup that overthrew the Shah and installed the Ayatollah was because the Shah as most monarchist dictators do had become corrupt and Iran was devolving, people were literally starving and so they overthrew the Shah in a relativiely bloodless coup and a democratic vote was taken on who would now rule, it was decided they would have a Theocratic democracy in the end. Incidentally the US built both nuclear reactors they claim Iran is using to make nuclear weapons because Iran like Iraq uses oil in power stations and oil is really far to valuable a commodity to waste in power generation. Europe supplied the enrichment facilities so that Iran could become a more stable power and use its oil in a more productive way. The UK and America supplied weapons to both sides in the Iran Iraq war, I am sure you remember the famous Contra issue where Oliver North was accused of selling weapons to the Iranian military and of course Reagan's insistence that he knew nothing of the whole thing.

Osama Bin Laden was trained and supplied with weapons by the CIA in his days as a Mujahadin fighter against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, a group that was later to become the Taliban.

Osama Bin Laden cites the CIAs actions to try and take out Gadaffi as one of the primary reasons he formed his terrorist organisation, a bombing strike on a country with which the US was not at war that killed 167 civillians and failed to take out Gadaffi. When asked if he thought his was a holy war or Jihad he only said that it was a political dispute not a religious one, and that it was fomented by the actions of the West.

In 1915 the English reneged on a deal with Fiesal for occupation of Trans Jordan Palestine in return for aid agianst the Turks in WWI in a covert agreement with France when Feisal who would later become ruler of Jordan and the Arabs in Palestine found out about England's malfeasance it created widespread dissent with the English occupiers. The story is played out in Lawrence of Arabia. Later the UN partition plan was carried out with no Palestinian envoy being present and was voted down by every government in the area. It went ahead despite the Zionists mass occupation after 1945 which the British were unable to stop. Leaving a fractured set of nations is in a terminal never ending ever decreasing circle.

See the Ayotollah is not really the bad guy here it's the West who are the prime movers and it is hardly surprising the ME is a shit storm of economic dumbness.

[Proud Cosmopolitan]

Don't worry Blaggard for I didn't think much of the movie "Argo" for these two reasons:


(1) The movie made it seem like the Iranians woke up on the morning of November 4th 1979 and decide that "storming the American embassy for the hell of it" was a good idea since it didn't go into much detail about the historical background of how the Americans were not exactly blameless when it came to Iran's historical grievances against them.

(2) It downplayed the role of the Canadian embassy in aiding the escape of the Americans since I still believed that Ken Taylor and company were the major "good guys and gals" in that regard.

[Blaggard]

Don't worry Blaggard for I didn't think much of the movie "Argo" for these two reasons:


(1) The movie made it seem like the Iranians woke up on the morning of November 4th 1979 and decide that "storming the American embassy for the hell of it" was a good idea since it didn't go into much detail about the historical background of how the Americans were not exactly blameless when it came to Iran's historical grievances against them.

(2) It downplayed the role of the Canadian embassy in aiding the escape of the Americans since I still believed that Ken Taylor and company were the major "good guys and gals" in that regard.

I actually really liked that film because It was true to history to a point and I thought genuinely the diplomats did not deserve to be killed for the actions of their government.

And I am totally aware of the Canadian embassies role in the whole affair, it's kinda sad when they make an "accurate" film they leave out the bits that don't involve Uncle Sam riding in on a white charger to save the day, I mean U571? Pearl Harbour, you're 'avin a bath mate.

Still they did some pretty good Vietnam stuff and Band of Brothers was an excellent series. So they're not all flag waving morons.

But nice to see you know some of the history behind the whole shit storm that is ME politics. I didn't like the Ayatollah either and Ahmadinejhad was a bit of a crap stirrer, Iran though is headed towards real democracy faster than most ME states, because its youth is utterly enamoured of Western culture, so given time say 20 years I expect another bloodles coup and a second democratic (properly democratic) parliament to triumph, although I may be naive, let's face it those in power are seldom willing to go out without a fight although if Iranian history is any guide they often do.

With all that in mind no I would not go back and kill the Ayatollah, Jesus and Mohammed though are dead if I ever get a time machine. j/k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4A1o3ZCHzE

Fat git.

[prof]

You won't get a time machine.

How does killing a fellow member of your species fit with Ethics?

Isn't this a forum on Ethics??



It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.



Create positive solutions to our grievous problems, and you'll be making a contribution; your life will make a difference.



Let's lay down our swords and shields -- and study war no more.

[Blaggard]

Quite doc, your polemic is apposite.

"Let's lay down our swords and shields -- and study war no more."

who said that was it Plutarch? I'm just guessing but I am sure I have heard that before...

[Proud Cosmopolitan]

This is a purely HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO and as for me, I would prefer it if ALL WESTERN COUNTRIES lent PRACTICAL and MORAL SUPPORT to the IRANIAN PRO - DEMOCRACY MOVEMENT whether or not THOSE COUNTRIES even had ANY SORT OF DIPLOMATIC REPRESENTATION IN TEHRAN.

[Blaggard]

This is a purely HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO and as for me, I would prefer it if ALL WESTERN COUNTRIES lent PRACTICAL and MORAL SUPPORT to the IRANIAN PRO - DEMOCRACY MOVEMENT whether or not THOSE COUNTRIES even had ANY SORT OF DIPLOMATIC REPRESENTATION IN TEHRAN.

Hehe where are you from Proud Cosmopolitan? I know it does not matter but even so? You seem to have the sort of spirit that is seldom replaced by stupidity, and so I would ask?

Europeans and the West in general are colossal hypocrites and monumental arseholes, we have had to put up with it for a long time, but you do eventually get used to it, although the sort of stain humanity leaves on your soul you never really get used to, and I don't even have a soul...

[Proud Cosmopolitan]

If you're from Australia you could say I'm from your "sister" Commonwealth country of Canada

[Blaggard]

If you're from Australia you could say I'm from your "sister" Commonwealth country of Canada

From England sorry about that, we kinda fucked up there.

Nice to see though Canada isn't marching imperially across the world as us arseholes did, though look South.

I don't think I need to apologise for England creating America as they are, but on the other hand as they are someone has to take the blame. :S

And in that light I am sure all Europe will accept responsibility for that shit. Sorry about that...

[Proud Cosmopolitan]

I wonder if our brethren and sisteren to the south would have been better off in some respects still as members of the British Commonwealth.

[Blaggard]

I wonder if our brethren and sisteren to the south would have been better off in some respects still as members of the British Commonwealth.

Complex issue and one for another thread but no I think the Americas were way better off getting out of The Europeans field of vision. We were monumental assholes wielding war as a sort of self righteous manifestation and it was completely idiotic as most politics is. France deserved to be left alone, England did not deserve its Empire and it was all just a mess of bad politics. Such is history though...