Three kinds of intelligence.

Psychonaut · Post by **Psychonaut** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:34 pm

There's only one bawling infant here; lay off the sauce.

mark black · Post by **mark black** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:37 pm

alex and psycho sitting in a tree...

Psychonaut · Post by **Psychonaut** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:40 pm

I disagree with scientologists; I disagree with everyone about something (wouldn't it be scary to meet someone you didn't disagree with?).

There's a very simple reason why folk of a certain stamp are singling out scientology; they perceive that there is safety in numbers, and currently there are plenty as want to do scientology down.

There is a history of established religions attacking new religions as 'cults', ignoring the fact that they are one and the same.

The non-religious like to feel empowered (as do we all), but get few opportunities to do anything about religions, except when the religious establishment turns on one of the religions.

At the point of this occuring there are far too many who supposedly speak for reason who are willing to enter into an unholy alliance with the established religions, and use the tools of unreason to destroy one brand of unreason.

All this does is encourage yet more unreason; if you want to end swords then going around chopping people with swords is a poor notion of how to do it.

Aetixintro · Post by **Aetixintro** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:33 pm

mark,

Just ignore me! All I'm saying is, give peace a chance!

mark black · Post by **mark black** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:48 pm

Psycho,

I disagree with scientology, but not because I ally myself with traditional religion. I know enough about it to know that it departs from reality, and that's enough for me. Allowing for the possibility that Alex is not the best prophet - still, it seems very much a reconceptualization of the Biblical story.

Instead of God they have Zoltan - the great bathroom cleanser from the sky, of whom they tell tall tales just this side of incredulity, but which you have to want to believe. Just like traditional religion they have immortal souls, so no personal death to face up to - always a crowd puller, but instead infer spiritual individualism - another crowd pleaser, as it frees the individual conscience from concern for other people, the planet and/or the future of the species. Instead they are encouraged to focus on introspective themes, supossedly to further personal development - in pursuit of spiritual reward, but actually to further ingrain the dogma.

In short, like other religions it is a pseudo-reality invented to reconceptualise actual reality they are unable to face up to - wishing for something better than what they have, they miss the value of what they have.

Like all religions, it is a betrayal of what's special about human beings - the ability to think, feel and know. It grieves me to think of all those people living unauthentic lives, thinking parasitic thoughts, feeling non-genuine emotions, not knowing the reality of thier existence, of themselves or others.

It's sickness - but not one to be treated with compassion, for it's a sickness that propogates itself without mercy, through the most foul means. It bores into people's minds at the weakest points - seeks out peoples fears and insecurities and exploits them for monetary gain.

Even in a world addicted to fantasy - and suffering terrible degradations for the fact, I'd rather face reality than bend reason to accept some comforting lunacy as I bend my back in prayer to a false god. I'd be true to myself in accepting wholeheartedly the truth of reality - and know that my thoughts, feelings and knowledge are authentic.

mb.

Psychonaut · Post by **Psychonaut** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:10 am

Mark, if you are going to criticise a notion the least you could do is criticise the notion, rather than some false version of it.

Flogging the straw man only serves to make it look like you don't have the guts or ability to take on the real man.

Also, whilst the Scientologists and other groups make claims that their concepts are part of an over-arching doctrinal set, you only assist them by treating it as if it is.

It is more than likely that there will be concepts within Scientology which you will find yourself agreeing with; to claim that something is wrong because it is believed by Scientologists is to commit the argumentum ad hominem, and you cannot sweepingly say 'Scientology is wrong'. Some of it will be wrong, some of it will be right.

For sure, some Scientologists will be very much into the argument from authority, another fallacy, and should be duly criticised for absolving themselves of their intellectual responsibilities.

Aetix is clearly not such a person.

Aetix has also made it abundantly clear that he doesn't believe in Xenu, and I have heard other Scientologists deny that this is even a part of Scientology.

You are being arbitrarily dismissive in a clearly offensive manner, you may as well say that he is wrong because he is German.

Despite this he has been nothing but polite and taken your attitude with a smile; the least you could do is hear the guy out or, since ofcourse there is freedom of speech and freedom of deafness, just ignore him instead of making pointlessly offensive remarks.

mark black · Post by **mark black** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:46 am

Psycho,

I am yet to hear the long version, and apparently, so is Alex. Afterall, he's not OT3 you know! So, I call his false god Zoltan. Good enough for him. He's not going to issue a fatwa is he! But I say this, if you don't want me to laugh - don't dress like a clown.

Despite this he has been nothing but polite and taken your attitude with a smile;

If you look back you'll find that I presented a conceptualisation of the relationship between individual and species in terms of my OP, which was politely critical of that relationship as concieved by Scientology - and found my ideas greeted with high level fuckwitism.

Can't you spew it out elsewhere, please!

...and that's polite, is it? That's how we engage with ideas here, is it?

No. Peel away the new age alien pretence and he's old style religious nutter all the way to the core. His ideas are founded in an emotional dependence on fantasy, and break through that mist with the searchlight of truth and you find a raging ego monster - all teeth and claws. I have done more than hear him out, I've sounded him out and he's falsity incarnate - a liar dealing in lies, false to himself and others.

mb.

Psychonaut · Post by **Psychonaut** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:04 am

Mark, you are rapidly degenerating...

and found my ideas greeted with high level fuckwitism.

What exactly do you mean by 'high level fuckwitism'?

You mean that he was blatantly wrong?

Then why not just tell him that he is wrong and in what manner?

The request that you 'spew it elsewhere' was preceded by your own rudeness; there is only one 'raging ego monster' so far displaying itself and it would be nice if you kept it in check.

So far you have presented absolutely no valid criticisms of Aetix's notions and have served only to act as a stumbling block in their explication, while presenting your own notions with nothing better than the very '(foundation) in an emotional dependence on fantasy' that you are accusing Aetix of, as per your deification of collective humanity.

mark black · Post by **mark black** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:30 am

Psycho,

You say:

whaaa! whaaaa!

there, there!

you ask:

What exactly do you mean by 'high level fuckwitism'?

I wrote an eloquent piece describing why the species should be emphasized before the individual in any realistic conception of reality, and recieved this reply:

Hi mark black

Nice. You underwrite it soundly in your post of Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:16 am.

Let's move on! Cheers!
_________________
Aetixintro

Fuckwitism! It's like we were talking on the phone and he hung up because he didn't like what I was saying. That's rude. This is a philosophy forum. That's fuckwitism.

Then why not just tell him that he is wrong and in what manner?

I did. And then he said:

Can't you spew it out elsewhere, please!

This Zoltan worshipper, purveyor of all things ridiculous tells me, in my thread to spew it elsewhere. Who the fuck does this creature think he is?
I'm not having that - and if you checked the record you'd have to agree.

mb.

Psychonaut · Post by **Psychonaut** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:45 am

Turns out I was right about you in the first place.

Oh well.

mark black · Post by **mark black** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:48 am

the phone just went dead again....

fuckwit!

Psychonaut · Post by **Psychonaut** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:50 am

Its the recommended course of action when you hear heavy breathing.

mark black · Post by **mark black** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:18 am

Psychobabble,

thank you for the recommendation, goodday.

clunk.

mb.

bus2bondi · Post by **bus2bondi** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:13 pm

hi mb, i think your correct about the author, but didn't think it was all rooted in emotional intelligence, another being spatial intelligence. Just letting you know will be getting back to you about it, but have to look it up again, and am thinking about some of your theories but haven't formed an opinion yet

mark black · Post by **mark black** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:54 pm

Okay b2b, Just some ideas. Let 'em settle in. But I moved the OP into another thread becuase Alex and Psycho have spoilt this one. If anything occurs please post there. mb.