+++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
Bill Wiltrack
Posts: 5468
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Contact:

+++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:45 am

.





The Fallacy of the NLP:


Reviews of empirical research find that NLPs core tenets are poorly supported.

The balance of scientific evidence reveals NLP to be a largely discredited pseudoscience.

Scientific reviews show it contains numerous factual errors, and fails to produce the results asserted by proponents.

According to clinical psychologist Grant Devilly (2005), NLP has had a consequent decline in prevalence since the 1970s.

Criticisms go beyond lack of empirical evidence for effectiveness, saying NLP exhibits pseudoscientific characteristics, title, concepts and terminology as well.

NLP serves as an example of pseudoscience for facilitating the teaching of scientific literacy at the professional and university level.


In research designed to identify the "quack factor" in modern mental health practice, Norcross et al. (2006) list NLP as possibly or probably discredited for treatment of behavioral problems.

Norcross et al. (2010) list NLP in the top ten most discredited interventions and Glasner-Edwards and Rawson (2010) list NLP therapy as "certainly discredited".






After conferring with Wikipedia it becomes obvious that the Neuro-linguistic programming movement, though perhaps initially intuitively honest, lacks any scientific or actual credibility.






Just doesn't make any sense...

............................................
Image







.

duszek
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:48 pm

But the men who provide lectures about NLP are really convinced of what they are suggesting to the public.

It is an opportunity to observe acts of speech.

You can also get an idea with which to make your own private experiments.

duszek
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:50 pm

Is it a sheep with a beard ?
Or a goat without horns ?

duszek
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:58 pm

Some people worry notoriously.

If they learn a technique how to switch to other, more cheerful thoughts, what´s wrong with that ?

duszek
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:08 pm

NLP techniques have been practiced for a long time without any systematic teachings about it.

When a woman counted her blessings, back in the old days, this was also an NLP technique. She focused on the good in order not to dwell on the bad.

User avatar
Bill Wiltrack
Posts: 5468
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:26 pm

.







................................................
Image







Neuro-linguistic programming has been characterized as a New Age pseudoscience.

Witkowski
(2010) writes that "NLP represents pseudoscientific rubbish, which should be mothballed forever."

The name Neuro-linguistic programming has also been criticised. Roderique-Davies (2009) states that "neuro" in NLP is "effectively fraudulent since NLP offers no explanation at a neuronal level and it could be argued that its use fallaciously feeds into the notion of scientific credibility."

Witkowski (2010) also states that at the neuronal level NLP provides no explanation at all and has nothing in common with academic linguistics or programming.

Similarly, experimental psychologist Corballis in his critique of lateralization of brain function (the left/right brain myth), states that "NLP is a thoroughly fake title, designed to give the impression of scientific respectability" and describes NLP as a "cult" activity with "little scientific credibility".

According to psycholinguist Willem Levelt "[NLP] is not informed about the literature, it starts from insights that have been rendered out of date long ago, concepts are not apprehended or are a mere fabrication, conclusions are based upon wrong presumptions.

NLP theory and practice have nothing to do with neuroscientific insights, nor with linguistics, nor with informatics and theory of programming."






Yea...um, other than that, Neuro-linguistic programming seems pretty harmless...






................................................
Image






.

duszek
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:53 pm

But how about keeping an open mind and giving new ideas a chance ?

One could make the following experiment:

I tell myself slowly for half an hour: I am a great guy who can achieve his dreams.
And then see how I feel.

And then, for another half an hour: I am a hopeless loser, and always have been.
And then see how I feel.

I have not done it but perhaps someone has and can report.

This would be programming one´s ... mental well-being ?
With linguistic means ?

User avatar
Bill Wiltrack
Posts: 5468
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:05 pm

.


It is a fallacy.

If Neuro-linguistic Programming is as simple as you characterize it to be, I would say in each experiment you are telling yourself lie. Following lies. So yes, the aftermath would be something you would have to deal with, in either of the examples you expressed.









.....................................
Image





.

duszek
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:27 pm

I am experimenting with Neuro-musical Programming.

Music can put you in a certain mood.

If you listen to Mozart you become more daring, more positive, more .... sunny.

Bach brings you closer to God.

You could programme yourself with jazz or soul music, too, I suppose.

User avatar
Bill Wiltrack
Posts: 5468
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:01 pm

.




Music can put you in a certain mood.


Through music you could possibly feel you closer to God.






.............................................
Image








.

duszek
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by duszek » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:50 pm

Music can programme people for heroic deeds.

La Marseillaise had put French men and women to storm la Bastille.

Music is emotional programming.

Whole generations were programmed by the Rolling Stones and the Beatles.

User avatar
Bill Wiltrack
Posts: 5468
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:52 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by Bill Wiltrack » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:56 pm

.






Music can affect an individual's mood.


I think that is the point of music.


Are you associating Neuro-linguisticl Programming with the effects of music?



Are you associating Neuro-linguistic Programming with Neuro-musical Programming?


Is music the essence of Neuro-linguistic Programming?



When I listen to music am I following the tenants of Neuro-linguistic Programming?



Why are you studying Neuro-linguistic and Neuro-musical Programming?



Why do you think their are so many negative attitudes towards Neuro-linguistic Programming?






.........................................
Image





The focus of this thread is The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming.




.

User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 12200
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:50 am

:lol: Talking about something you haven't read or practiced yet again I see.

Wiki as authority is so you.

You know all that stuff about how you keep doing the behaviours that lead to your heart attacks? My advice, stay well away from NLP.

User avatar
Arising_uk
Posts: 12200
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:31 am

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:55 am

Bill Wiltrack wrote:...Why do you think their are so many negative attitudes towards Neuro-linguistic Programming? ...
:lol: Because psychoanalysts like their repeat fees.

Note that since the advent of NLP Psychoanalysis has come over all CBT.

Of course it's not good for all that ails us, just a handy toolset for setting goals and outcomes and changing.

duszek
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:27 pm
Location: Thin Air

Re: +++ The Fallacy That is Neuro-linguistic Programming +++

Post by duszek » Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:47 am

If words can programme your neurons then music can do it even more.

There is a famous song written by the husband of Jane Birkin and Bridget Bardot (if I am not mistaken).
Georges Gainsbourg his name. More or less.

Je t´aime et moi non plus. part of its lyrics.

I try this melody to remove a moment of annoyance when in the street or in public places.

I wonder if this melody could make crying babies quiet or psychiatric patients less nervous and anxious.

If I tell myself "I am not angry any more" this has far lesser effect than the song I have just mentioned.
I play it in my mind and it works, it wipes the anger away. Like by magic.

Try and see for yourself.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests