thedoc wrote:Space, (The Universe) is described as finite but unbounded. If it is finite it is of a fixed size at any one instant in time, that humans do not have the means to measure it is irrevelant. I, myself, do not have the means to measure the speed of light, but I do not question the accuracy of those who have.
If space is finite and unbound then that would be a contradiction too.
And as for the speed of light you wouldn't be the first to believe in C,
Einstein did too.
C as is space as is nature is truly immeasurable.
MJA wrote:
I only asked you a simple question: how do you measure space as you claim you can do?
Would you please try again and if all you can answer is to call me names then I would ask that you not respond at all.
Thanks,
=
My statement was perfectly correct. If you cannot measure length, like by taking out a damn ruler and using it, and measure something in your reference frame, then it could only be because you are insane and deluded into thinking measurement is not possible. You are speaking of an act that small kids learn how to do. Your measurement is correct for your reference frame. The fact is that if you measure the volume of a can of coke, and you get a number, it is perfectly correct for your reference frame. It is reality. Relativity just states that you cannot state that your measurement is the absolute correct one, since it will differ for people in other frames of reference, who may measure the volume of your can of coke as half the value you did. They would also be correct, for their reference frame. You are stating that you can't make any measurement at all? Seriously? You can't take a friggin ruler and measure your foot size and at least figure out that it is less than a meter? If you are unable to make such determinations about the world around you, then you would have to be insane.
So get your ruler out and tell us the measure of space.
Thanks,
=
Yep, you are definitely insane. Have fun with that.
thedoc wrote:Space, (The Universe) is described as finite but unbounded. If it is finite it is of a fixed size at any one instant in time, that humans do not have the means to measure it is irrevelant. I, myself, do not have the means to measure the speed of light, but I do not question the accuracy of those who have.
If space is finite and unbound then that would be a contradiction too.
And as for the speed of light you wouldn't be the first to believe in C,
Einstein did too.
C as is space as is nature is truly immeasurable.
The problem is that you say C can't be measured whilst others say it can. These others then go on to design things that actually work or create predictively reliable models so I'm not sure what point you're really trying to make here.
thedoc wrote:Space, (The Universe) is described as finite but unbounded. If it is finite it is of a fixed size at any one instant in time, that humans do not have the means to measure it is irrevelant. I, myself, do not have the means to measure the speed of light, but I do not question the accuracy of those who have.
If space is finite and unbound then that would be a contradiction too.
And as for the speed of light you wouldn't be the first to believe in C,
Einstein did too.
C as is space as is nature is truly immeasurable.
The problem is that you say C can't be measured whilst others say it can. These others then go on to design things that actually work or create predictively reliable models so I'm not sure what point you're really trying to make here.
Thanks for your input John.
My point is simply that space is immeasurable.
For if it is not then what is its measure?
Light is the same.
The day we put an atomic clock on a plane and when it landed with a slightly different time than the clock on the ground time became a real thing not just a man made measurement of the sun rotation. Time, space, movement, and gravity, are interconnected. Why is the question?
RIW wrote:The day we put an atomic clock on a plane and when it landed with a slightly different time than the clock on the ground time became a real thing not just a man made measurement of the sun rotation. Time, space, movement, and gravity, are interconnected. Why is the question?
thedoc wrote:Space, (The Universe) is described as finite but unbounded. If it is finite it is of a fixed size at any one instant in time, that humans do not have the means to measure it is irrevelant. I, myself, do not have the means to measure the speed of light, but I do not question the accuracy of those who have.
If space is finite and unbound then that would be a contradiction too.
And as for the speed of light you wouldn't be the first to believe in C,
Einstein did too.
C as is space as is nature is truly immeasurable.
Thanks,
=
Whether space is infinite or 'unbound' is meaningless. Its only a contradiction in words.
Words that adequately describe a thing beyond our full knowledge or perception.
Space is still what it is.
C is a known quantity based on verifiable data and corroboration.
It has little to do with belief as the concepts it entails are internally correct within all currently understood parameters.
Ok this dumbass wonders how movement and gravity affect the clock, and why the big bang can’t be the beginning of time and the end of time being the right here and now. Or should I say as far as time has unfolded thus far. Making time measurable, and finite.
thedoc wrote:Space, (The Universe) is described as finite but unbounded. If it is finite it is of a fixed size at any one instant in time, that humans do not have the means to measure it is irrevelant. I, myself, do not have the means to measure the speed of light, but I do not question the accuracy of those who have.
If space is finite and unbound then that would be a contradiction too.
=
No, it is no contradiction, a perfect sphere is finite in size but is unbounded, (It has no edge). Space is the 3 dimentional equivalent of a perfect sphere. Space is curved, if you fly through space, in a straight line, far enough, you will come back to where you started.
'c' has been measured and is a constant for each observer.
MJA wrote:
If space is finite and unbound then that would be a contradiction too.
And as for the speed of light you wouldn't be the first to believe in C,
Einstein did too.
C as is space as is nature is truly immeasurable.
The problem is that you say C can't be measured whilst others say it can. These others then go on to design things that actually work or create predictively reliable models so I'm not sure what point you're really trying to make here.
Thanks for your input John.
My point is simply that space is immeasurable.
For if it is not then what is its measure?
Light is the same.
=
There is a difference between immeasurable and not haveing the means to measure it. Space could be measured, if we had the means to do so.
RIW wrote:Ok this dumbass wonders how movement and gravity affect the clock, and why the big bang can’t be the beginning of time and the end of time being the right here and now. Or should I say as far as time has unfolded thus far. Making time measurable, and finite.
Much of Relativity and Quantum Theory is counter-intuitive, it has no corolation in everyday experience. Much of our everyday experience does not translate to the quantum level or to the cosmic level. But then there is no reason to expect that the universe should work the way we think it should.
RIW wrote:Ok this dumbass wonders how movement and gravity affect the clock, and why the big bang can’t be the beginning of time and the end of time being the right here and now. Or should I say as far as time has unfolded thus far. Making time measurable, and finite.
You post is meaningless unless you are willing to show who "this dumbass" is. You are just ranting in no particular direction.
RIW wrote:Ok this dumbass wonders how movement and gravity affect the clock, and why the big bang can’t be the beginning of time and the end of time being the right here and now. Or should I say as far as time has unfolded thus far. Making time measurable, and finite.
Much of Relativity and Quantum Theory is counter-intuitive, it has no corolation in everyday experience. Much of our everyday experience does not translate to the quantum level or to the cosmic level. But then there is no reason to expect that the universe should work the way we think it should.
I think science got it wrong,
And their measure is the flaw of us all.
RIW wrote:Ok this dumbass wonders how movement and gravity affect the clock, and why the big bang can’t be the beginning of time and the end of time being the right here and now. Or should I say as far as time has unfolded thus far. Making time measurable, and finite.
Much of Relativity and Quantum Theory is counter-intuitive, it has no corolation in everyday experience. Much of our everyday experience does not translate to the quantum level or to the cosmic level. But then there is no reason to expect that the universe should work the way we think it should.
I think science got it wrong,
And their measure is the flaw of us all.
=
Then you 'think' wrong.
Anyone can see a flaw in your statement, you can't pretend to assert a flaw in us all.
Last edited by chaz wyman on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thedoc wrote:
Much of Relativity and Quantum Theory is counter-intuitive, it has no corolation in everyday experience. Much of our everyday experience does not translate to the quantum level or to the cosmic level. But then there is no reason to expect that the universe should work the way we think it should.
I think science got it wrong,
And their measure is the flaw of us all.
=
Science relies on repetition. When an experiment is done, others will reproduce that experiment. If others fail to get the same results the ides is abandon, if others get the same results the idea is accepted. When someone makes a discovery it is intrepreted, and again others then examine the data and if the intrepretations coinside, OK, if not the intrepretation is abandon. Show us where science is in error, which measurement is incorrect, which theory is flawed?
