Your Taxes

[artisticsolution]

Now I don't know how true that is about the funding for American schools as I haven't looked into it but if it is true is that not a good example of an institutionalized imbalance that is likely to engender longer term negative effects?

To Tell you the truth...I don't know either. When I was in the 6th grade, Las Vegas decided to bus kids from the "rich" neighborhoods to the "poor" schools and from the "poor" neighborhoods to the "rich" schools (all public schools). I was part of that experiment, and I can tell you that the schools in the poor neighborhood were horrible! I remember thinking how ugly the school was...but I didn't understand why at that age. Now mind you...my family was not rich by any means...but we had just moved out of poverty into a middle class neighborhood at that point in my life. But in the poor neighborhood we lived in...I was going to elementary school and even though it was "poor" it was "kid friendly" so I didn't notice it being "poor" It was only when I went to the "6th grade centers" that I noticed a stark difference. I was the first class they did that too...but it must have been expensive because they didn't do it for long...but after the 6'th grade we went into jr high...so I wouldn't know what happened to 6th graders after that.

Anyway, fast forward to today, and now my children attend public school (well one does...the other is in college..but attended the same school the younger one does now). They both go to what is called a magnet school. Magnet schools take kids from all around the city...no matter what their social or economic status (status is not the right word...as in the US we don't usually think of people in terms of various classes....we think of our citizens in term of the individual. A rich bitch can be seen as classless here...and a poor intelligent person can be hailed as very classy here.. so status as far as economics goes...is hard to explain) Anyway, our city bused magnet school kids from all over (although, the bus stops are not convenient.) Now I don't know what you have to do to get into a magnet school, but I know not everyone gets in....you have to have the aptitude...and I am not sure how that is all figured out...as my husband took care of getting our kids in...I think they had a test or something. But I must tell you...my kids went to school with really rich kids and really poor kids....and I think there is an affirmative action type thing going on as well. Maybe later I will research it or ask my husband.

On a side note though...my kids would have probably never gone there if we didn't have my husband...because I am not one to figure out these things on my own. I probably would have never known they existed unless my kids came to me and wanted to go...then I would have made a point to find out how to send them. So you see the different personalities and how my husband is organized and proactive and I am not. I was just lucky to have someone like him in my life...how many others are not?

These are the types of things I think are important to teach in school....how to do stuff like organize yourself to be able to take advantage of government programs and such. How to know who to call or write to have your voice heard. Basically, how to be a responsible adult. No one taught me that...not school...not my mom...I felt overwhelmed and still do. The only way I got my business going is one of my dear friends held my hand and helped me make a web site...and showed me how to market myself and send out letter and such. Now it is easier for me....but people just take for granted everyone knows how to do that and they don't.

I think programs that offer this type of help for the unorganized are in order if we want people to help themselves. We need to start at the basics and not assume everyone knows.

[John]

What age range do these magnet schools cater for?

I read recently that, in England, only one in 15 children that are behind for their age group on starting secondary school (around age 11 or 12) manages to catch up. That suggests that if the damage is done by poor early schooling it's very difficult recover from (or at the least the English system isn't geared up to helping children recover so I'm wary of assuming the results translate across borders).

The report was here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16721884

[artisticsolution]

What age range do these magnet schools cater for?

I read recently that, in England, only one in 15 children that are behind for their age group on starting secondary school (around age 11 or 12) manages to catch up. That suggests that if the damage is done by poor early schooling it's very difficult recover from (or at the least the English system isn't geared up to helping children recover so I'm wary of assuming the results translate across borders).

The report was here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16721884

The Magnet schools are high schools...14 thru 18?

And yes...it is hard to catch up but not impossible if you have reasonable intelligence. I was tested above average intelligence as a child but I did poorly in school because I wasn't capable emotionally...or maybe I was immature...whatever the reason....at that age keeping up was near impossible. Esp. with a family who did not stress the importance of education. How many intelligent kids do not have someone, such as a parent, to see they keep on the straight and narrow? Teachers can't be responsible for what the kid is learning at home. I learned very quickly...all the things I had missed as a child when I became an adult...when I was shown by a kind person. All adults need is to have the opportunity for a second chance. If they are capable, and want to learn...they will.

[chaz wyman]

What age range do these magnet schools cater for?

I read recently that, in England, only one in 15 children that are behind for their age group on starting secondary school (around age 11 or 12) manages to catch up. That suggests that if the damage is done by poor early schooling it's very difficult recover from (or at the least the English system isn't geared up to helping children recover so I'm wary of assuming the results translate across borders).

The report was here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16721884

Did you know that around 50% of people are more stupid that average?

The problem with this sort of thing is that some kids who are 'behind' are behind because for some no amount of schooling is ever going to get them over average achievement.
Arguments are circular in this respect.

eg. Children with poor attainment did badly at English? No shit?

The article is pretty meaningless if you stop and think about it.

[John]

No matter how stupid people are or aren't I also know kids who miss a lot of school because their parents don't seem to place a particularly high value on education. Many of those kids will fall behind because of this so it's just one example that points me towards the conclusion that not all kids who do badly at school do so because they're stupid.

[chaz wyman]

No matter how stupid people are or aren't I also know kids who miss a lot of school because their parents don't seem to place a particularly high value on education. Many of those kids will fall behind because of this so it's just one example that points me towards the conclusion that not all kids who do badly at school do so because they're stupid.

Indeed, and it ought to be the job of schools to build each child to his or her maximum potential in areas in which that child is most capable, whilst nurturing basic skills that are useful or necessary for everyday life.
Sadly the sausage factory which places children at a ration of 30-1 teacher tends to run with a one-size-fits all approach which tends to be applicable to a tiny minority.
The big question is how to provide for all levels and abilities whilst catering for general skills and to avoid pigeon-holing too early to prevent social mobility.
The old grammar/modern system was an attempt to siphon off the academic ones at age 11. The result was that 60% were thrown on the scrap heap, whilst the 40% got the best of everything. Nice if you want to maintain the working class/middle class distinction but shit if you were a late developer that just missed the 11+ exam; doomed to learn with the morons and disaffected teachers.