can men be feminists

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Arising_uk
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Arising_uk »

Rortabend wrote:If you have to be a woman to be a feminist then I don't hold out much hope for the future of animal rights. Woof woof.
Nicely put point. :)
But until they can hold an AK I think they can whistle for them.
mickthinks
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by mickthinks »

Notvacka wrote:
Rortabend wrote:If you have to be a woman to be a feminist then I don't hold out much hope for the future of animal rights. Woof woof.
I love this comment; how it drives the point home perfectly, whilst being funny too. Wish I had written it myself. :lol:
I like it too, but it doesn't "drive the point home" as well as all that. The parallel between women's equality and animal rights is not so close that what's true of one is true (mutatis mutandis) of the other, and it's possible to support gender equality without being a feminist. Just saying.
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John
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by John »

Arising_uk wrote:
Rortabend wrote:If you have to be a woman to be a feminist then I don't hold out much hope for the future of animal rights. Woof woof.
Nicely put point. :)
But until they can hold an AK I think they can whistle for them.
This guy is demanding his rights.

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Arising_uk
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Arising_uk »

:lol: Just goes to show that seeing is not believing.
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John
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by John »

Arising_uk wrote::lol: Just goes to show that seeing is not believing.
I've seen the films. I'm taking no chances.

:lol:
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Notvacka
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Notvacka »

mickthinks wrote:I like it too, but it doesn't "drive the point home" as well as all that. The parallel between women's equality and animal rights is not so close that what's true of one is true (mutatis mutandis) of the other, and it's possible to support gender equality without being a feminist. Just saying.
The way I read it, it's not just a parallell, and the point driven home is not only about feminism or animal rights, but goes much deeper. Neither does it depend on the closeness of the parallell. Some of the beauty and brilliance is lost if you have to explain it, but here goes:

The initial question of this topic, "can men be feminist?" is a question at all, solely due to the unspoken assumption that solidarity is only possible with your own kind, your own gender, or perhaps not truly possible at all. (And what an apalling assumption it is.) It implies self-interest as the only true interest. Because men benefit from gender inequality, they can't truly wish for equality, we are to believe, since it must be in their self-interest to maintain any advantage. But if this reasoning is true for gender inequality, it must be true for any inequality, and only those who are at a disadvantage could ever wish for a change.

Now, some people do believe in animal rights and advocate such rights quite vocally, surely not because they think animals will thank them, and (perish the thought) surely not to get laid (as suggested about male feminists earlier in this thread). If selfless solidarity with other species is possible, then, solidarity with the other gender of our own species must also be possible. It's not about the closeness of the parallell, but about our closeness with others.

Instead of "what's true of one is true of the other", we get "what's clearly not true of one (where it more likely could have been true - humans are not so much like livestock as men are like women) is not true of the other either.

It's nice to know that solidarity is possible, and it's even better served with a joke.
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Grim
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Grim »

At the college I attend there is offered a Women's Studies program, O.K. not technically feminists but my bet is this is as close as you can get to a "feminist degree" (I would be interested to hear comments on that). Anyway so on the Women's studies webpage they have one photo in particular of past graduates, the class of 2005 I believe, anyway out around 8 girls there is one boy in the background, obviously a Women's Studies Major along with the rest. Now I'm pretty open to just about anything and take the thought of a male in Women's Studies seriously O.K. nothing to get excited about: an unorthodox choice with questionable career potential...however, like most majors there is a club you join on enrollment, in the case of my college this unfortunate young man was/is/had become a fraternal members of the college's "Women's Club"!

:smirk:
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Satyr
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Satyr »

Yes, men can be the most vehement feminists. It is their only way to get sexually noticed.

If you are an inferior male, your only other option, is to present yourself as the most reliable, comforting, nice ally out there.

God knows you have no chance competing in any other manner.
In the wild the inferior males in a pack dominated by one alpha, usually make themselves successful to the female. they bring her food, take care of her young, groom her...etc.

They hope that this grovelling will give them access, at some time, to that pussy.
It usually does...but who gets to inseminate the egg is strictly a female choice.

What often happens is that these "nice guys" begin raising the sperm of more dominant males, with one of their own thrown into the mix.
Thundril
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Thundril »

Can I take a different tack here?
As a man, I stand totally and unequivocably in solidarity with feminism. However, I don't call myself a feminist. As a parallel: it's perfectly possible for an English person to be completely in solidarity with Irish Republicanism; but it would be very odd for that person to claim to be an Irish republican.
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Satyr
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Satyr »

A man can be a feminist in the same way a man can be a defender of animal rights.

He likes to consider his social positions as a sign of his enlightenment, when it is in fact a symptom of his association...the one he denies to himself.
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Grim
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Grim »

Is there a list available of prominent/influential/popular male feminist thinkers?
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Notvacka
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Notvacka »

Satyr wrote:Yes, men can be the most vehement feminists. It is their only way to get sexually noticed.
Yours will be a one track mind as long as you let your genitals do all the thinking.
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Satyr
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Satyr »

Here's the thing, unlike you I do not dismiss physical evidence as being irrelevant.

When I see a rooster, I do not say it is just like a chicken, erasing millions of years of evolution history to fit my world-view to a post-modern lie.

Now maybe for you a penis is but a superficial appendage, in which case you'll have to explain why it is the only one, or if it not how you differentiate between yourself and a donkey.

Help me because I'm having trouble with it myself.

Now, to preempt the typical, let us say you baptize the difference as being too small to matter...in which case you;ll have to explain why this difference is too small, where you draw the line between an appearance being large enough or too small to be given consideration and why then science involves itself with quarks and SuperStrings...given that they are infinitesimally smaller than your "huge" penis.
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Notvacka
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Notvacka »

Satyr wrote:Here's the thing, unlike you I do not dismiss physical evidence as being irrelevant.

When I see a rooster, I do not say it is just like a chicken, erasing millions of years of evolution history to fit my world-view to a post-modern lie.

Now maybe for you a penis is but a superficial appendage, in which case you'll have to explain why it is the only one, or if it not how you differentiate between yourself and a donkey.

Help me because I'm having trouble with it myself.

Now, to preempt the typical, let us say you baptize the difference as being too small to matter...in which case you;ll have to explain why this difference is too small, where you draw the line between an appearance being large enough or too small to be given consideration and why then science involves itself with quarks and SuperStrings...given that they are infinitesimally smaller than your "huge" penis.
Just as I thought, yours will be a one track mind as long as you let your genitals do all the thinking. And your apparent obsession with phallic size just proves the point. :lol:

Note that I never claimed that there is no difference, nor that the difference is insignificant. However, the more you focus upon the difference, the bigger it will appear. But that's just what you want, isn't it? A bigger penis?

In truth, we are more alike than different. Yes, goats and donkies too.
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Satyr
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Re: can men be feminists

Post by Satyr »

Yes, a bigger penis would be lovely.

I also think that attacking another's penis compensates for an absence of an argument.

Here's the thing, ignoring differences is not going to make them go away.
In fact, consciousness is the awareness of differences.

For instance, a big penis like you, must know that discrimination can make indoctrinated puppies bite a their collar...but it also means awareness.
A discriminating palate, for example, is aware of a difference is taste...he has taste, it is said.

A numb, conformist pig, will eat shit and call it no different than filet mignon.

Now I know this is hard to take, but evolution world on accumulated minute little mutations, passed on because they offer an advantage.
You keep ignoring those differences, and numb yourself to the world.
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