Does God have a gender?

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Astro Cat
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Does God have a gender?

Post by Astro Cat »

In many versions of theism, gods are assigned genders. This might make sense for some like Zeus that are supposed to be running around bodily incarnated in some way most of the time.

But what about gods that are supposed to transcend space and time, do they have genders?

People often refer for instance to the God of Christianity as a “He,” even when not incarnated as Jesus.

Now, critics of gender theory usually insist that sex and gender are the same thing and that gender is defined chromosomally, by genitalia, or by gametes (producing sperm or egg). Arguably, a lot of gods that get assigned genders don’t have any of these, yet a lot of gender critics are perfectly comfortable calling their god a He or a She or whatever.

Do they have an explanation for this?
promethean75
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by promethean75 »

i imagine if u found an argument with a theist here they'd say something along the lines of a) it's just a habit of grammar and/or b) as spirit god is the manifestation of paternal love and protection, etc, god the 'father'.

course' that's not sufficient becuz it gives no reason why that couldn't be the maternal love and protection of a female god.

obviously the real reason is quasi-feuerbachian. the images of god created by humans and turned into formal organized religions have always mirrored a male-run hierarchical state... so naturally god's gonna be a guy. the symbol of the king or high chief.

and as we all know, it's not for nuthin that we consistently find women to blame for some major tragedy in many of the religious mythologies. this is the expression of the flip-side of that same sexism that is expressed in the manufacturing of the image of god (the king symbol, etc); his contempt for women.
seeds
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by seeds »

Astro Cat wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:24 am Does God have a gender?
No.
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Impenitent
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by Impenitent »

anthropomorphism is an error

-Imp
mickthinks
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by mickthinks »

Astro Cat wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:24 am Do they have an explanation for this?
I like it, Astro Cat. It's a line of argument that hadn't occurred to me and I'm a bit cross with myself for missing it. I'm imagining asking a anti-trans moran, "God's all powerful isn't he? There's nothing he can't do. So he could transition to female then! Er ... why not? Are you saying he would have to stick with the gender he was assigned at birth? ... etc. etc."
Iwannaplato
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Astro Cat wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:24 am In many versions of theism, gods are assigned genders. This might make sense for some like Zeus that are supposed to be running around bodily incarnated in some way most of the time.

But what about gods that are supposed to transcend space and time, do they have genders?

People often refer for instance to the God of Christianity as a “He,” even when not incarnated as Jesus.

Now, critics of gender theory usually insist that sex and gender are the same thing and that gender is defined chromosomally, by genitalia, or by gametes (producing sperm or egg). Arguably, a lot of gods that get assigned genders don’t have any of these, yet a lot of gender critics are perfectly comfortable calling their god a He or a She or whatever.

Do they have an explanation for this?
Most deities have some manfiest presence. Usually they are not completely transcendent. Further often the idea is that there are different essential tendencies in men and women and this originated at the spiritual/deity level. Perhaps there is a mother essence and father essence in the deity (or dieities). There are religions where ultimately, the final or complete deity is a combination of male and female essences. YOu can have a kind of independent/unity paradox. There are two facets that are in some way independent AND they are a unity.

The idea that there is something essentially different between the sexes may seem like a traditional or conservative bias, but actually it's much more complicated than that.

Transpersons and everyone who supports them is essentially saying that they are correct in assessing that they are not their birth biological sex. 'I know I am really a woman' or man, despite my body.

IOW in traditional feminism this might be seen as confused. That gender is cultural. Whatever a person born a women feels that makes them think they are really a man, has to do with cultural limits or cultural biases, and really nothing that person is experiencing means they are the other sex. Sort of like, hey if you are tough, like driving trucks and keeping your hair short and tend to dominate in a relationship, you can be a woman. (not that transpersons limit themselves to justifying based on traditionally thought of traits for the sex they think they are, but anything they mention about their experience could be dismissed as cultural ideas).

If one accepts that someone can be born with the wrong body, this points to some kind of essential maleness and femaleness that is not dependent on genitals or chromosomes.

And even a portion of traditional feminism could be seen as having judgements about what men and women ARE. If testosterone can be used in insults, for example, then there is some idea that there are essential differences in character between the sexes.

So, this is paralleled in some religious traditions, where even fairly negulous deities (Shiva and Parvati, say) have different traits related to their sex. Even the was Mary is viewed by many Christians, especially Catholics, has a real sense of deities (who are not walking around in bodies) who have differences related to their sex. Mary had a body, yes, but she's pretty abstract these days. None of them are expecting her to walk into their backyards, well most of the time. But she is some kind of ethereal energy/essence, but one with certain characteristics.

My point is that beyond the genitals and chromomes, there are many groups, even secular Leftist ones, that see some essential difference between men and women, maleness and femaleness. And there's no reason why something not running around in body couldn't exhibit those traits, while being nebulous.
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Agent Smith
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by Agent Smith »

The divine pronoun is "He" and Jesus refers to God as "Father". Nevertheless, in what sense is God a man and not a woman? How is God a father and not a mother? Why He rather than She?
Iwannaplato
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Agent Smith wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:18 am The divine pronoun is "He" and Jesus refers to God as "Father". Nevertheless, in what sense is God a man and not a woman? How is God a father and not a mother? Why He rather than She?
I dunno...in general the God of the Bible seems pretty male to me. Not a man, male. Especially in the OT. Perhaps that's why many people have deified Mary to compensate and to approach in certain situations.

And if there is an actual Hell that people are sent to to suffer for eternity, well, that seems like a male solution to me. I think female essences would be vastly less likely to come up with that idea or to do it if somehow they were deities.

The Abrahamic religions really do have a sense of difference between maleness and femalenes and women and men and it shows right through. Other traditions have had a more balanced presence of male and female energies, deities, and there again there are differences between M and W, M and F, built in.

There are interpretations of many religions, including the Abrahamic ones that treat God as neither male nor female.
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Agent Smith
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by Agent Smith »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:35 am
Agent Smith wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 6:18 am The divine pronoun is "He" and Jesus refers to God as "Father". Nevertheless, in what sense is God a man and not a woman? How is God a father and not a mother? Why He rather than She?
I dunno...in general the God of the Bible seems pretty male to me. Not a man, male. Especially in the OT. Perhaps that's why many people have deified Mary to compensate and to approach in certain situations.

And if there is an actual Hell that people are sent to to suffer for eternity, well, that seems like a male solution to me. I think female essences would be vastly less likely to come up with that idea or to do it if somehow they were deities.

The Abrahamic religions really do have a sense of difference between maleness and femalenes and women and men and it shows right through. Other traditions have had a more balanced presence of male and female energies, deities, and there again there are differences between M and W, M and F, built in.

There are interpretations of many religions, including the Abrahamic ones that treat God as neither male nor female.
Most interesting, but this is getting tedious by the minute. Some things like teeth never go out of fashion, oui?

LGBQTians have, almost effortlessly, muddied the water. I wonder, if God exists, "He" is going through a gender identity crisis! That as per your analysis.
seeds
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by seeds »

Astro Cat wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 2:24 am Does God have a gender?
I doubt that you (or anyone else, for that matter) will buy any of this, however, in one of my book illustrations...

(and in my humble [insane] dream of trying to usher-in a "new spiritual paradigm")

...I have taken the liberty of having my metaphorical representation of God make the following clarifying statement about our (and God's) gender status in the afterlife:
"...You shall be neither male or female, but a balanced blend bearing the best of both. You shall be "whole" and "completed" as I AM..."
It must be understood that with just a few minor re-arrangements of our bodily DNA while our embryos are developing in our mother's womb, any one of us could have been born as the opposite gender of what we are now, and we would have acted out our earthly "roles" accordingly.

And the point is that once you (your eternal soul) discards this...

Image

...at the moment of death, all traces of that which determined your earthly gender will be discarded with it.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Odd, you would think Immanuel Can would have something to say in this thread.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by Immanuel Can »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:33 pm Odd, you would think Immanuel Can would have something to say in this thread.
I hate to disappoint.

My answer would be, "Why don't you ask Him?" :wink:
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:20 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:33 pm Odd, you would think Immanuel Can would have something to say in this thread.
I hate to disappoint.

My answer would be, "Why don't you ask Him?" :wink:
God could decide to be a woman on Thursdays and a man on Fridays and something midway between those on all the other days.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by Immanuel Can »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 4:45 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:20 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 11:33 pm Odd, you would think Immanuel Can would have something to say in this thread.
I hate to disappoint.

My answer would be, "Why don't you ask Him?" :wink:
God could decide to be a woman on Thursdays and a man on Fridays and something midway between those on all the other days.
I'm pretty sure you haven't asked Him. 8)
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Does God have a gender?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:21 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 4:45 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:20 am
I hate to disappoint.

My answer would be, "Why don't you ask Him?" :wink:
God could decide to be a woman on Thursdays and a man on Fridays and something midway between those on all the other days.
I'm pretty sure you haven't asked Him. 8)
Well it's :tophat: Thursday on this side of the Atlantic :crossed_fingers: right now, so I guess you can ask Her :eggplant:
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