Black Widows

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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simplicity
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Re: Black Widows

Post by simplicity »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 1:56 am
simplicity wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 1:10 am I get the whole nihilist thing, but it's just thinking. Consider transcending the discriminating mind and then we'll really have something to chat about.

Remember, it is our thinking that makes good and bad [not the world], therefore, It is only your thinking that is keeping you miserable.
It is not our minds that make all pain, unpleasance or abuse. Other people, disasters, illness, as a few examples can lead to pain and misery. The raped child is not thinking incorrectly, nor is he raped adult. Telling someone who has been raped that they need to transcend their mind would be lacking in empathy. Of course, that is an extreme example, but then life will present us all with extreme examples, at some point over time. There are also much less dramatic kinds of misery caused by certain kinds of poverty or abusive work, for example.
Things are not unpleasant in and of themselves. Our thinking makes them that way.

You give the example of human suffering. But how about every time you take a step, are not thousands [millions?] micro-organisms being crushed? How do you feel about that? Or is it your thinking [or lack of thinking] that creates such?
simplicity
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Re: Black Widows

Post by simplicity »

Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 9:14 am

I think for myself, I do not need another to think for me. If you think I am miserable then maybe you need to stop thinking that.

Hmm, bet you never thought of that did yer. :roll:
Only all the time. It's the paradox of living in the intellectual world.
Dontaskme wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 9:14 am Only I get to decide whether I'm miserable.. not you. It's known as 'Sologamy' :shock: who needs the hell that is other, been there, done that, and decided not to buy it, thank you very much.

It's no coincidence that man’s best friend cannot talk.
Although nihilists are fairly transparent in projecting their misery, technically, you are correct.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Dontaskme »

simplicity wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:54 pm
Only all the time. It's the paradox of living in the intellectual world.
Yeah, it's called 'projection'


simplicity wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:54 pmAlthough nihilists are fairly transparent in projecting their misery, technically, you are correct.
''Sologamy'' is the solution to projection. No one else can get inside your own head without your own permission, it's known as giving ourselves the permission to be human, which has nothing to do with nihilisim, especially the rejection of human morality in the form of compassion and empathy.

Sometimes there are '' Deepity's '' in life most valuable and always worth the ponder.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Iwannaplato »

simplicity wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:43 pm Things are not unpleasant in and of themselves. Our thinking makes them that way.
Sometimes, but our nervous systems make them that way also. Animals without language based thinking find some things unpleasant. And they can even be traumatized and have later problems based on suffering various things. We have nervous systems. We have body based tendencies towards and away from experiences. We have social needs. We thrive in some environments and wither in others.
You give the example of human suffering. But how about every time you take a step, are not thousands [millions?] micro-organisms being crushed? How do you feel about that?
I don't have any innate empathy for micoorganisms.
Or is it your thinking [or lack of thinking] that creates such?
I am not denying that thinking can cause suffering or more suffering. I deny that it is the only cause. I also think if you interact with people as if it is the only cause, you end up being socially damaging. Not when it is discussed in a philosophy forum at an abstract level, but if you interact with people who are suffering, in individual cases, and always think it is their thinking creating the problem.
simplicity
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Re: Black Widows

Post by simplicity »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 5:20 am
...it's known as giving ourselves the permission to be human, which has nothing to do with nihilisim, especially the rejection of human morality in the form of compassion and empathy.
Do you really believe this stuff? And why?

No need to work backwards in an attempt to make sense out of our simplistic intellects. Just accept what is and be done with the rest of it. It makes for a much nicer life.
simplicity
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Re: Black Widows

Post by simplicity »

Iwannaplato wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:50 am Or is it your thinking [or lack of thinking] that creates such?
I am not denying that thinking can cause suffering or more suffering. I deny that it is the only cause. I also think if you interact with people as if it is the only cause, you end up being socially damaging. Not when it is discussed in a philosophy forum at an abstract level, but if you interact with people who are suffering, in individual cases, and always think it is their thinking creating the problem.
[/quote]
Without thinking, how can there be suffering? You need to look into the nature of pain.
Gary Childress
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Gary Childress »

simplicity wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:44 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:50 am
simplicity wrote: Or is it your thinking [or lack of thinking] that creates such?
I am not denying that thinking can cause suffering or more suffering. I deny that it is the only cause. I also think if you interact with people as if it is the only cause, you end up being socially damaging. Not when it is discussed in a philosophy forum at an abstract level, but if you interact with people who are suffering, in individual cases, and always think it is their thinking creating the problem.
Without thinking, how can there be suffering? You need to look into the nature of pain.
Without thinking, there wouldn't be anything neither good nor bad. What is your point? Are you trying to make a case that suffering doesn't exist or isn't real?
simplicity
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Re: Black Widows

Post by simplicity »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 7:20 pm Without thinking, there wouldn't be anything neither good nor bad. What is your point? Are you trying to make a case that suffering doesn't exist or isn't real?
No, I am trying to make the point that our thinking makes suffering. For example:

Let's say Elon Musk or Bill Gates has a really bad day in the stock market and lose tens of billions of dollars worth. Nobody would suggest that this would cause somebody a great deal of suffering, but it's kind of relative, right? All suffering is this way. Suffering is completely dependent on the subject, not the object causing the so-called suffering. Therefore, does suffering really exist if it is not universally experienced or is it something made up in the individual's mind?
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Gary Childress »

simplicity wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:00 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 7:20 pm Without thinking, there wouldn't be anything neither good nor bad. What is your point? Are you trying to make a case that suffering doesn't exist or isn't real?
No, I am trying to make the point that our thinking makes suffering. For example:

Let's say Elon Musk or Bill Gates has a really bad day in the stock market and lose tens of billions of dollars worth. Nobody would suggest that this would cause somebody a great deal of suffering, but it's kind of relative, right? All suffering is this way. Suffering is completely dependent on the subject, not the object causing the so-called suffering. Therefore, does suffering really exist if it is not universally experienced or is it something made up in the individual's mind?
I guess my thinker is broken because all I can experience anymore is grief. I suppose that makes me of no use to anyone.
simplicity
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Re: Black Widows

Post by simplicity »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:12 pm
simplicity wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:00 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 7:20 pm Without thinking, there wouldn't be anything neither good nor bad. What is your point? Are you trying to make a case that suffering doesn't exist or isn't real?
No, I am trying to make the point that our thinking makes suffering. For example:

Let's say Elon Musk or Bill Gates has a really bad day in the stock market and lose tens of billions of dollars worth. Nobody would suggest that this would cause somebody a great deal of suffering, but it's kind of relative, right? All suffering is this way. Suffering is completely dependent on the subject, not the object causing the so-called suffering. Therefore, does suffering really exist if it is not universally experienced or is it something made up in the individual's mind?
I guess my thinker is broken because all I can experience anymore is grief. I suppose that makes me of no use to anyone.
Within everything is contained everything. Some see only the good, others only the bad. And then there are those who see that there is good and bad and try to exist in the middle. The middle is where you want to be...acknowledge good and bad but don't not go either way. Just be ok with all things is the way.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Dontaskme »

simplicity wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:55 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:12 pm
simplicity wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:00 pm
No, I am trying to make the point that our thinking makes suffering. For example:

Let's say Elon Musk or Bill Gates has a really bad day in the stock market and lose tens of billions of dollars worth. Nobody would suggest that this would cause somebody a great deal of suffering, but it's kind of relative, right? All suffering is this way. Suffering is completely dependent on the subject, not the object causing the so-called suffering. Therefore, does suffering really exist if it is not universally experienced or is it something made up in the individual's mind?
I guess my thinker is broken because all I can experience anymore is grief. I suppose that makes me of no use to anyone.
Within everything is contained everything. Some see only the good, others only the bad. And then there are those who see that there is good and bad and try to exist in the middle. The middle is where you want to be...acknowledge good and bad but don't not go either way. Just be ok with all things is the way.
And some would rather not walk the tightrope at all...some do not relish the idea of having to walk the ''will I fall'' or ''will I balance'' to avoid the fall.....Some see it as a silly pointless game they would rather not play...this game is not everybody's dream life. Sometimes, it's just better to not be forced to walk the tightrope.

We live in a reality where we impose what are our own values upon another person everytime we choose to have a baby.

We live in a reality where ''emotionally broken'' people have children, where the child has to live in the broken world of it's parents, the one's they are dependant upon for their very survival.... And then there are people who just choose not to have children for whatever reason, mostly the reason is because of a keen intelligence and sharp forsight that is able to see through the trap..in a clear and precise way.

In my opinion..anyone who chooses to have a child today is a child abuser...see the daily news for more info as to why it's a bad idea to be having children right now.

Either climate change is going to fry or freeze them to death...or nuclear bombs will irradiate them to death.

Or..the ones affected by ''generational child abuse'' will just go on to make more ''broken people'' adding more fucked up people to the already fucked up world...and the stupidity continues until we finally wake-up and see the trap we set ourselves up for is not going anywhere or achieving anything whatsoever...but it takes a lot of intelligence to see through the trap...unfortunately, not many people have evolved the kind of intelligence that is needed to see through the stupidity.

.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Dontaskme »

simplicity wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:42 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 5:20 am
...it's known as giving ourselves the permission to be human, which has nothing to do with nihilisim, especially the rejection of human morality in the form of compassion and empathy.
Do you really believe this stuff? And why?

No need to work backwards in an attempt to make sense out of our simplistic intellects. Just accept what is and be done with the rest of it. It makes for a much nicer life.
Why don't you start by stop telling me what I ought to be thinking. :|

Oh yes indeed, life is very simple...anyone with half a brain cell already knows..and no one would be lying.

It does not take a 'rocket scientist' to work out there is no way to avoid not accepting ''what is''

“The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.”
Machiavelli

"Paradise is under the shades of swords." Bukhari



Image

I'm simply in a simplistic way...stating, if I could choose to be born again, knowing what I know about life ...I would not choose to be born again...so just accept that..and be done with the rest of it...it makes for a peaceful argument. HUH!!

“Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
― Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
Iwannaplato
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Iwannaplato »

simplicity wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 5:44 pm Without thinking, how can there be suffering? You need to look into the nature of pain.
Babies and animals don't think their way to pain. You get raped tonight on the way home, the pain you experience then and in the coming weeks is not caused by thinking. It's victim blaming. Again. Yes, thinking can cause pain, but it is not the only source. We have nerves for pain. Creatures that do not think suffer and express pain. We thrive in some environments and suffer in others. Sometimes adding thinking can reduce suffering. Certain kinds of thinking and also denial can minimize suffering. But that doesn't mean that thinking caused the pain. And suffering is a motivation. It is part of why we feel it. To motivate us to eliminate the actual causes, if we can. Unfortunately children and even many adults often do not have the power until later or ever.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Iwannaplato »

simplicity wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:00 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 7:20 pm Without thinking, there wouldn't be anything neither good nor bad. What is your point? Are you trying to make a case that suffering doesn't exist or isn't real?
No, I am trying to make the point that our thinking makes suffering. For example:

Let's say Elon Musk or Bill Gates has a really bad day in the stock market and lose tens of billions of dollars worth. Nobody would suggest that this would cause somebody a great deal of suffering, but it's kind of relative, right? All suffering is this way. Suffering is completely dependent on the subject, not the object causing the so-called suffering. Therefore, does suffering really exist if it is not universally experienced or is it something made up in the individual's mind?
Oh, jeez.
Let's say is getting raped by a large adult right now. Actually that is happening. Is the kid making a mistake because he or she is not thinking the way you think we should?
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Re: Black Widows

Post by Iwannaplato »

simplicity wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 3:55 am Within everything is contained everything. Some see only the good, others only the bad. And then there are those who see that there is good and bad and try to exist in the middle. The middle is where you want to be...acknowledge good and bad but don't not go either way. Just be ok with all things is the way.
It sounds like you are not judging, things are all ok.
But actually you are judging certain emotions and reactions as not OK. You have blame for them, likely in yourself, but certainly in others. YOu seem to be saying accept everything, but if one looks closer it means accept everything outside of you, but do not accept all your reactions, emotions inside you. And judge others, if implicitly, for what they have inside them.
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