Feminists' view of men and manhood

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Jori
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Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Jori »

Do feminists hate men? Do they want to be like men? If they hate men, why do they want to be like men? Then they would want to be something they hate.

I don't understand why some women hate to be dictated by their husbands, but then went out to become secretaries and organizational subordinates.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Define 'feminist' first.
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Lacewing
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Lacewing »

Jori wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:24 am Do feminists hate men? Do they want to be like men?
They just want equal rights, as is totally reasonable for anyone to want. Men who oppose or obstruct this, and imagine themselves as uniquely entitled simply for being male, may be 'hated' by all kinds of reasonable people because of such male ignorance and cruel domination.
Jori wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:24 am Do they want to be like men? If they hate men, why do they want to be like men? Then they would want to be something they hate.
Are you talking about gay women? I have some gay female friends, and they never talk about hating men. They're just focused on what they feel is right for themselves.
Jori wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:24 am I don't understand why some women hate to be dictated by their husbands, but then went out to become secretaries and organizational subordinates.
So, two separate parts: 1) Most people (male and female) don't like being dictated to; 2) Women who have been denied various rights/standing/opportunities throughout their lives -- through family upbringing, culture, society, education, and workforce opportunities -- are going to do the best they can with what's available to them. Because of patriarchal cultures, women have had to fight to acquire and achieve what should have been readily accessible to them. Very stupid men have had more rights and opportunities than very smart women. Being male or female should make no difference. Rewards and opportunities should be for those who earn them, not because of gender or color or any other difference.

I do not know any women who hate men and/or want to be like them. :D But I know lots of women who are amazing and brilliant kickass beings, who subdue themselves either because their culture demanded it, or because the limitations of their own families or male partners wouldn't be able to handle/accept it. It takes strength and compassion for them to live within a male-dominated world of such ignorance and egoic fragility.
Jori
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Jori »

I see. I think I agree.
theory
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by theory »

The following topic may be of interest. It indicates that women have been actively suppressed and excluded from philosophy and that in the past 25 years, women that studied philosophy, often dedicated to philosophy of feminism.

♀️ Females in philosophy
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33671

Women have been thought throughout history that their place is not in philosophy.

"While there have been women philosophers since the earliest times, and a few were accepted as philosophers during their lives, almost no woman philosophers have entered the philosophical Western canon. Only in the past 25 years there has been a small change with the emergence of feminist philosophy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_philosophy

A search for women in philosophy pictures results in the following as the first result on some websites, such as istockphoto.com:

Image

It may be of interest to discover whether women in general are interested in thinking and philosophy, or if they may actually differ from males on that regard and prefer to subject to male philosophy.

When males dominate philosophy, it may be logical that women remain structurally dominated by males in many other areas of humanity.
Jori
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Jori »

I have a watched A TV show. The setting is sometime in the distant past when men danced with each other,. and women did not dance. One woman admires a man. She wished she were a man so that she could dance with this man. Another woman scolds the first woman saying, "Women's legs are not meant for dancing, but don't be sad - we have other talents." What is your reaction to this.
stevie
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by stevie »

Jori wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:24 am Do feminists hate men? Do they want to be like men? If they hate men, why do they want to be like men? Then they would want to be something they hate.

I don't understand why some women hate to be dictated by their husbands, but then went out to become secretaries and organizational subordinates.
Generally feminists claim equal rights for females. Maybe some feminists suffer from affective lability and get upset when they meet persons who do not share their equality views and hate their opponents but that isn't a trait of feminists but a trait of people suffering from affective lability which is why there are also opponents of feminists who hate feminists.

Marriage isn't an employment relationship so you are comparing apples and oranges.
FrankGSterleJr
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by FrankGSterleJr »

I sometimes wonder whether general male violence, philandering, sexism and controlling behavior toward girls/women are related to the same constraining societal idealization of the ‘real man’ (albeit perhaps more subtly than in the past): He is stiff-upper-lip physically and emotionally strong, financially successful, confidently fights and wins, assertively solves problems, and exemplifies sexual prowess.

(Meanwhile, there's the Toronto Now article headlined “Keep Cats Out of Your Dating Profile, Ridiculous Study Suggests” and sub-headlined “Men were deemed less masculine and less attractive when they held up cats in their dating pics, according to researchers”. Supposedly weak or sensitive men need not apply, one presumes.)

Maybe society should be careful what it collectively wishes for. ... Shortly after Donald Trump was sworn-in as president, a 2016 survey of American women conducted not long after his abundant misogyny was exposed to the world revealed that a majority of respondents nonetheless found him appealing, presumably due to his alpha-male great financial success and confidence.
FrankGSterleJr
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by FrankGSterleJr »

ALSO: There remains a general, albeit perhaps subconsciously held, mentality out there: Men can take care of themselves, and boys are basically little men. It is the mentality that might help explain why the book Childhood Disrupted was only able to include one man among its six interviewed adult subjects, there being such a small pool of ACE-traumatized men willing to formally tell his own story of childhood abuse. Could it be evidence of a continuing subtle societal take-it-like-a-man mindset? One in which so many men, even with anonymity, would prefer not to ‘complain’ to some stranger/author about his torturous childhood, as that is what ‘real men’ do? (I tried multiple times contacting the book's author via internet websites in regards to this non-addressed florescent elephant in the room, but I received no response.)

Furthermore, I've noticed over many years of Canadian news-media consumption that when victims of abuse/assault, sexual or otherwise, are girls their gender is readily reported as such; however, when they're boys, they're usually referred to gender-neutrally as children. It’s as though, as a news product made to sell the best, the child victims being female is somehow more shocking than if male. Also, I’ve heard and read news-media references to a 19-year-old female victim as a ‘girl’, while (in an unrelated case) a 17-year-old male perpetrator was described as a ‘man’.

I wonder: Does such lopsided gender referencing in hard-news coverage reveal the gender bias of the general news consumership (which includes me), since news-media tend to sell us what we want or are willing to consume thus buy?
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Lacewing
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Lacewing »

theory wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:27 am It may be of interest to discover whether women in general are interested in thinking and philosophy, or if they may actually differ from males on that regard and prefer to subject to male philosophy.
I just offered the following perspective/suggestion in the Females In Philosophy topic:

Perhaps females generally LIVE more philosophically than males do, so the idea of studying it seems kind of silly. Maybe males NEED to study it because it doesn't come as naturally for them. :lol: Then, the males may think themselves all grand for doing so... while those 'silly females' don't care. Those females typically grow up under very different conditions than the males -- conditions which require them to think beyond the obvious from their early beginnings. They recognize the world they are being born into, and the games that are being played. So they naturally learn to think and play better... regardless of whatever role they decide to settle into. It's a very dynamic difference than what most males are HANDED despite them not possessing any significant insight.

Generally speaking. :)
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Dontaskme
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Dontaskme »

I am a woman. But I would never call myself a Feminist, I'm just a natural born woman, full stop.

What is my view of men and manhood?

I adore men to a passion that I can't even put into words, they are gorgeous creatures, I absolute love them with every fibre of my being, they are incredible beautiful creatures, and I really hope they know how magnificent they are.

I think women are very lucky and blessed to be sharing their existence with men. The bliss that there are men and not just women in the world makes me cry with pure joy and grateful appreciation.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Immanuel Can »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:40 am Define 'feminist' first.
That's good advice.

Not all that flies under the "Feminist" banner is the same thing. At all.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:49 pm I am a woman. But I would never call myself a Feminist, I'm just a natural born woman, full stop.

What is my view of men and manhood?

I adore men to a passion that I can't even put into words, they are gorgeous creatures, I absolute love them with every fibre of my being, they are incredible beautiful creatures, and I really hope they know how magnificent they are.

I think women are very lucky and blessed to be sharing their existence with men. The bliss that there are men and not just women in the world makes me cry with pure joy and grateful appreciation.
All of them?? I must say that Jason Momoa is pretty 'magnificent' (although I'm sure he has his bad/annoying habits) but a very large percentage of them you have to wonder what on earth anyone saw in them. I suppose a lot of women are just desperate to have any man.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Dontaskme »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:28 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:49 pm I am a woman. But I would never call myself a Feminist, I'm just a natural born woman, full stop.

What is my view of men and manhood?

I adore men to a passion that I can't even put into words, they are gorgeous creatures, I absolute love them with every fibre of my being, they are incredible beautiful creatures, and I really hope they know how magnificent they are.

I think women are very lucky and blessed to be sharing their existence with men. The bliss that there are men and not just women in the world makes me cry with pure joy and grateful appreciation.
All of them?? I must say that Jason Momoa is pretty 'magnificent' (although I'm sure he has his bad/annoying habits) but a very large percentage of them you have to wonder what on earth anyone saw in them. I suppose a lot of women are just desperate to have any man.
The only man I was ever desperate for was my first husband and father of my children. I would have stayed with him forever.

But he left me for some other woman, who has now left him :shock: He's alone and so am I
I never re-married.

Anyways, that taught me everything I needed to know about hooking up with the opposite sex.

I am choosing to live alone now. I have no more desire to live with another human being. It's as if I need to live in solitude.

I have male friends but wouldn't dream of sleeping with them or co-habiting with them ever.

.
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Lacewing
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Lacewing »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:28 pm All of them?? I must say that Jason Momoa is pretty 'magnificent' (although I'm sure he has his bad/annoying habits) but a very large percentage of them you have to wonder what on earth anyone saw in them.
:lol: I know, right?? 8)
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