Feminists' view of men and manhood

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Scott Mayers
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Scott Mayers »

Jori wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:24 am Do feminists hate men? Do they want to be like men? If they hate men, why do they want to be like men? Then they would want to be something they hate.

I don't understand why some women hate to be dictated by their husbands, but then went out to become secretaries and organizational subordinates.
The concern, where it is not coming from the extreme patriarchalists, is that the type of feminist most prominent today support an opposing matriarchy in its place. Here in Canada, our system grants a religious favor to women and girls, with the inclusion of anti-white and anti-male laws pretending that this is being done with good intentions.

The fact is that these 'racial' related issues are more of a politically motivated set of many issues now. The reality is that BOTH men and women created the initial stage of differentiation. To be more honest, the origins of sex differences is the sincere "initial" stage but where we can overrule our own biology today, we have reached a point where certain biases are no longer necessary.

I don't believe most of these concerns regarding sexual discrimination are actually about sexual imbalances in fair treatment but are due to the seemingly innoculous misdirection painted as though there are because we no longer need the traditional biological distinctions. Specific to politics, religious competition is involved under the indirect banner of "culture", and the economic differences act as the motivating triggers.

Genetic causes: sex evolved to separate animals because while one of the subspecies is needed to produce offspring, the other, by most living things, is required to be more transient. For humans, as with most animals, the male is needed to protect and hunt because it best concerves the likihood that the females can successfully carry to term and have time to teach and raise their babies to survive for an unusual longer period than other animals. As we progressed, the favor of women to select tall and strong males is actually the number one factor causing this outside of rape itself. That is, on the assumption that rape is not the stereotypical reason for male physical dominance the power by the free and FINAL choices always come from the women in the selection processes. So the first socially relevant issue of inequality that fosters male dominance in many fields today are due to the women's preferences for them, not the male's preference for the women to be weaker and submissive. Certainly in the transition to become different sexes, men and women were 'equal' in physical qualities. So how could the initial humans without sex favor the then subtle distinctions of men over women without a precondition of being different. So the primmates (prior to being human) begun their selection process that defined males as those that accidentally happen to be more physically domineering and the females as those that are able to be least mobile and able to hold more fat over muscle because this would be needed to feed the babies and so also have to be more compassionate for it was needed for attending to successfully raising the children in their earlier stages of development.

Economic causes: Since technology is the intiating factors that make life easier, the means of access to these are the first of the ecomonic factors that precede change. Condums, the pill, and abortion methods permit women to have the kinds of extended freedoms that normally belonged to the male. But since women are still the holders of power with regards to final selection for procreation, their internal biological interests have not had enough time to alter and so they still to this day favor men to be more physically dominating and themselves to be more emotionally dominant with respect to raising children, and, where attraction favors the submissive, their external beauty.

Technology has evolved too fast for our biological systems to be so radically different than the whole history prior to the last 100years. This then stands to justify why even permitting more freedoms for women would not immediately make women seek jobs that were traditionally male. In an opposite way, sensitivity in males has been permitted more freedom but are most shunned by both sexes as partners should they veer off into acting more effeminate. While women may seem to be the ones most friendly to the homosexual outside of homosexuals themselves, they would still not favor those males for selection who are bisexually open. The male is conscious of this fact and why those who still prefer women but who might like to have the effeminate freedoms seem to be the ones who react more violent against other homosexual males with physical violence. Even the appearance of a man to be 'attractived' BY other men suffice for women to disapprove of choosing men who are more effeminately 'free'.

Cultural causes are the social changes that free women more than men contrary to the apparent victim/predatory distinctions asserting women as being the only victim class. The reality of most discrimination is not about sex but about physique and beauty of either sexes that tend to map to the traditional distinctions. So short people, for instance, might be the reason someone wanting to hire a tall person will falsely make the cause seem associated to sex. Because statistically, the taller happen to be male, and the shorter to the female, these are the underlying cause for discrimination that seems unfair. The favor of correcting this still favors the female because the genetic preferences of the women will still be the predominating reason for men to also BE biased against those males or females not representative of their expected sexual norms.

This is just an overview of my interpretation of some of major contributors. But I hold that there is still a hypocritical favoritism because they still have the sole final power of selection outside of rape and religious biases that prevent women to have abortions. Religion is just the tool used to justify favored behaviors where they lack actual contemporary justification. Gay men and women wanting to 'marry' for instance is about the gay people wanting to conserve the traditional male/female contractual evolution of marriage that originally was only about officially holding parents accountable to actual offspring. The change in laws could have, for instance, redefined all relations as types of contracted unions, not just the gay people, and then the issue of marriage regarding the religious ceremonies in ones conservative churches could have been left unscathed. In time, the churches would still likely have evolved to 'fit' to accepting gay marriages voluntarily. So the movements that gave us gay 'marriage' rights are a kind of infringement on religious beliefs which show that the politics can create the illusion of the biases that foster the climate of hostility.
Belinda
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:07 pm
Belinda wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:28 pm It stands to reason that if the disempowerment of females is removed then females can become honorary males, and males can become honorary females.
Obviously untrue. That's like saying, "If we remove disempowerment, women will all stand 6' 4" and weigh 250 lbs." One could wish for it forever, and will never see it come about, no matter what one does.

That is an invalid comparison. For modern man, musculature and smaller bones can be equalised by technology.
Actually, no they can't. I have no idea where you got that idea, but it's not true. You can't "technologically" make a man into a woman, nor can you do more than cripple growth in men; you can't technologically ramp up a woman into being a man.

You can mangle with chemicals: you can't change the nature of male and female.
Feminism exists for getting rid of unfair discrimination!
First wave, yes; second wave, and third wave, no. And Radical Feminism, definitely not.
When Feminism has reached it's lunatic point is when it promotes the idea that an admiral who was born a man is the best "woman" for the job.
Person, Manny, person.
They aren't calling him a "person," B. They're trying to tell us he's a "woman."

But do you believe that? Do you believe that the dude in the admiral's dress is actually a woman? And are you content for the best "woman" to be a man?

Think, B. Think about what that means...for you, for your daughter(s) or for other women.
Manny, I think you may possibly refer to some actual story about an admiral that I am not aware of.I had thought you were generalising.

Regarding technology can equalise the smaller bones and muscles of women and the larger ones of men, I got the idea from a news item about a slender young woman HGV driver who loves her job.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:33 pm Manny, I think you may possibly refer to some actual story about an admiral that I am not aware of.I had thought you were generalising.
I was speaking of the Biden appointment of "Rachel" (nee: Richard) Levine, a man in woman's clothes, who has just been acclaimed the first "female" admiral of the American Navy.

Congratulations. The first "female" admiral is a dude. :roll:

Are you buying any of that nonsense?
Belinda
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:48 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:33 pm Manny, I think you may possibly refer to some actual story about an admiral that I am not aware of.I had thought you were generalising.
I was speaking of the Biden appointment of "Rachel" (nee: Richard) Levine, a man in woman's clothes, who has just been acclaimed the first "female" admiral of the American Navy.

Congratulations. The first "female" admiral is a dude. :roll:

Are you buying any of that nonsense?
Without knowing any details beyond what you say, I believe a proper good designer can make a uniform that looks well on both men and women.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:17 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:48 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:33 pm Manny, I think you may possibly refer to some actual story about an admiral that I am not aware of.I had thought you were generalising.
I was speaking of the Biden appointment of "Rachel" (nee: Richard) Levine, a man in woman's clothes, who has just been acclaimed the first "female" admiral of the American Navy.

Congratulations. The first "female" admiral is a dude. :roll:

Are you buying any of that nonsense?
Without knowing any details beyond what you say, I believe a proper good designer can make a uniform that looks well on both men and women.
Are you serious? You think this is about "fashion"? No, no my dear...it's about whether or no women matter at all.

Now that any man can "be a woman," what need have we of women athletes? What need do we have for "women's studies" departments? What are "women's issues," since any man can have them? What need we of promoting or valuing real "women"? Now, any man can "be" a woman anytime he wants. :?

Think, B. What does that mean for you, for your daughter, for other women...
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henry quirk
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by henry quirk »

B,

Levine flat-out claims he's a woman. And he's been recognized as a woman by a whole whack of folks who ought to, and probably do, know better.

This ain't about fashion: it's existential.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Belinda wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:17 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:48 pm
Belinda wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:33 pm Manny, I think you may possibly refer to some actual story about an admiral that I am not aware of.I had thought you were generalising.
I was speaking of the Biden appointment of "Rachel" (nee: Richard) Levine, a man in woman's clothes, who has just been acclaimed the first "female" admiral of the American Navy.

Congratulations. The first "female" admiral is a dude. :roll:

Are you buying any of that nonsense?
Without knowing any details beyond what you say, I believe a proper good designer can make a uniform that looks well on both men and women.
What a stupid comment. Can't you just leave your wokeness at the door for once and do some actual thinking?
wtf
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by wtf »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:44 pm B,

Levine flat-out claims he's a woman. And he's been recognized as a woman by a whole whack of folks who ought to, and probably do, know better.

This ain't about fashion: it's existential.
Mom always wanted me to marry a nice Jewish girl.
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henry quirk
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by henry quirk »

wtf wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:33 am
henry quirk wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:44 pm B,

Levine flat-out claims he's a woman. And he's been recognized as a woman by a whole whack of folks who ought to, and probably do, know better.

This ain't about fashion: it's existential.
Mom always wanted me to marry a nice Jewish *girl.
*presumably your Ma meant the real McCoy and not some psycho guy in a dress
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Dontaskme
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Dontaskme »

Appearances are deceptive.

Beautiful to look at ...but could be deadly as hell within the unseen realms of their actual presence. For example: the rose and the thorn analogy.

Men often want women to think the way they do, knowing that if only women thought the way they do, their relationship would be a match made in heaven. It's the same for women, they often want men to think the way they do for the exact same reason. Maybe that's why the desire for 'same sex' relationships manifested as part of reality.

Truth is, the way a woman or a man thinks will remain the same, they both function very differently when it comes to emotions and thought patterns. The trick is to realise each others way of thinking is unchangable, and that any attempt to change it is the sure way to short circuit any female and male relationship. The two sexes were designed to compliment each other not repel each other. The mastery of (perfect male and female correlation) comes when each other can accept and surrender to all the differences that make up someones actual presence, knowing full well peoples presence no matter what gender they are, cannot be any other way than be exactly the way they are at all times.


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Polybius
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Polybius »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:42 pm

If men had spent more time listening to their wives and not raping them and beating them about the body and head, their children would have had a better chance, and the world would have been a more peaceful place.

So 'stereotyping' men. Hardly unexpected. Hypocrisy is par for the course with wokies.
It's hardly a stereotype if it's common place historically and still not totally uncommon in modern times. If you open any historical book, you'll struggle to find a man who didn't rape and beat his wife as well as beating their children. Marital rape was only outlawed in 1992 in the uk and still remains difficult to prove in a court of law.
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Astro Cat
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Re: Feminists' view of men and manhood

Post by Astro Cat »

Jori wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 3:24 am Do feminists hate men? Do they want to be like men? If they hate men, why do they want to be like men? Then they would want to be something they hate.

I don't understand why some women hate to be dictated by their husbands, but then went out to become secretaries and organizational subordinates.
Feminists do not hate men.

For your second question, it depends on what you mean by "wanting to be like men." What do you consider being "like a man?" Some people consider traits like being reasonable or working in traditionally male-dominated fields (like philosophy, the doctoral side of medicine, STEM) to be "masculine" for whatever reason: in such a case, it's less wanting to "be like a man" and more about tearing down unnecessary gendering of human traits like the use of reason, philosophy, mathematics, etc.

So I guess if you're asking "why would a woman want to be a doctor or pursue higher education" or something like that, or "why would an able-bodied woman want to be a firefighter," then the answer is because these things shouldn't be gendered. A woman isn't "trying to be like a man," she's trying to show that these things aren't exclusive to men.

As for your final comment, I'm not sure what's hard about this to grasp. Some people want a relationship that's a partnership; they don't want to be infantilized with or by their most intimate person. That has nothing to do with whichever job they perform.
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