JK Rowling vs. History

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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:29 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:16 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:59 pm

Why should she have to change her appearance? I mean, it's all about how she 'feels' and 'identifies'. How transphobic of you to even suggest that she change her appearance to be more like a 'woman'...
Come on veggie I thought the logic was clear enough for you to understand. She/he obviously were having a problem on how they were addressed. Visual cuing is what we all use to initially choose a pronoun when not knowing ones name. I've made the error many times, but it's usually on the phone, as we also use aural cuing in such circumstances. Nobody's a damn fortune teller, nor does anyone have the ability to read peoples minds. So it was her/his responsibility to either make sure they look completely like a woman or accept the errors associated with having a man's face. I can see it now, "Can I help you sir?" Duh!!! The would be woman was definitely at fault, as they should only ever expect such mistakes. All they have to do is look in the mirror to see why they are initially addressed as a man. It's HER/HIS responsibility to make sure it never happens again, as absolutely no one can read peoples minds so as to know what others believe they are and how they should be addressed.

That's my final argument for this particular example, no rebuttal will be entertained. Under the circumstances, I'm correct, considering what's fair and can be expected from all parties involved.
No need for a rebuttal. Your response has nothing to do with my previous one.
So you are mentally challenged, as it had everything to do with it!
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

SpheresOfBalance wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:01 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:29 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:16 am
Come on veggie I thought the logic was clear enough for you to understand. She/he obviously were having a problem on how they were addressed. Visual cuing is what we all use to initially choose a pronoun when not knowing ones name. I've made the error many times, but it's usually on the phone, as we also use aural cuing in such circumstances. Nobody's a damn fortune teller, nor does anyone have the ability to read peoples minds. So it was her/his responsibility to either make sure they look completely like a woman or accept the errors associated with having a man's face. I can see it now, "Can I help you sir?" Duh!!! The would be woman was definitely at fault, as they should only ever expect such mistakes. All they have to do is look in the mirror to see why they are initially addressed as a man. It's HER/HIS responsibility to make sure it never happens again, as absolutely no one can read peoples minds so as to know what others believe they are and how they should be addressed.

That's my final argument for this particular example, no rebuttal will be entertained. Under the circumstances, I'm correct, considering what's fair and can be expected from all parties involved.
No need for a rebuttal. Your response has nothing to do with my previous one.
So you are mentally challenged, as it had everything to do with it!
That's hate speech towards the mentally challenged :evil:
mickthinks
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by mickthinks »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:44 pm
mickthinks wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:04 am The crucial issue at hand is whether transitioning helps trans people to be happier.
It seems that being able to pass as the "new" gender only reduces suicidal inclinations from the mid 40's to 40% flat.
I don't know what "being able to pass" means in this context, but I do know that it isn't the same thing as transitioning. Nor have I found any support for your "suicidal inclinations reduced from the mid 40's to 40%" claim.

What I did find (as you could have if you were really motivated to understand) is that not all trans people want to take hormones or to have surgery, but among those that do want to, hormones result in a 27% reduction (8.9% to 6.5%) and surgery results in a 40% reduction (8.5% to 5.1%) of trans people unhappy enough to attempt suicide.

Or, in other words;
mickthinks wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:32 pm"a completed medical transition was shown to greatly reduce rates of suicidal ideation and attempts"
---------------------------------------------
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:38 pmBut you won't believe me whatever I say.
lol I only don't believe you when you're wrong, Manny. That is a lot of the time, though, I grant you.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

mickthinks wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:58 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:44 pm
mickthinks wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:04 am The crucial issue at hand is whether transitioning helps trans people to be happier.
It seems that being able to pass as the "new" gender only reduces suicidal inclinations from the mid 40's to 40% flat.
I don't know what "being able to pass" means in this context, but I do know that it isn't the same thing as transitioning. Nor have I found any support for your "suicidal inclinations reduced from the mid 40's to 40%" claim.

What I did find (as you could have if you were really motivated to understand) is that not all trans people want to take hormones or to have surgery, but among those that do want to, hormones result in a 27% reduction (8.9% to 6.5%) and surgery results in a 40% reduction (8.5% to 5.1%) of trans people unhappy enough to attempt suicide.

Or, in other words;
mickthinks wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:32 pm"a completed medical transition was shown to greatly reduce rates of suicidal ideation and attempts"
---------------------------------------------
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:38 pmBut you won't believe me whatever I say.
lol I only don't believe you when you're wrong, Manny. That is a lot of the time, though, I grant you.
So what? Who's stopping them from indulging their delusions?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:58 pm I don't know what "being able to pass" means...
It just means that most people don't find it obvious that one is a dude in a dress or a girl in pants. Some people can get by without constantly being recognized as trans...few, I grant you, but some. So there's no chance that it's persecution or "not being accepted" that is the problem, because some get fully "accepted," and by rate, just as many are still just as unhappy and self-loathing as those who cannot "pass" as the gender they propose to take on.
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by mickthinks »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:56 pm
mickthinks wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:53 pm ... differences, especially differences as material as the difference between race and gender, can be assumed to make a difference except in special cases.
There are very good reasons for believing this isn't "special" in that way.
I'm guessing you meant to write "is special", because if it isn't a special case then you're making my point for me.

Up until know, transgenderism has been officially classified (in the DSM, for example) as a "body dysmorphic disorder," ..

Huh? Wishing to be identified as of a different race has nothing to do with body dysmorphia or the DSM. So if the DSM is the basis on which you claim all arguments in support of transgender people must work for people who wish to change the race they identify as, you have no basis.

Try again?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:32 pm Wishing to be identified as of a different race has nothing to do with body dysmorphia or the DSM.
Show me an argument for trangenderism that does not also work for transracialism or BDD. Let's see if anything justifies your making that case special.
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by henry quirk »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:27 am
mickthinks wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:32 pm Wishing to be identified as of a different race has nothing to do with body dysmorphia or the DSM.
Show me an argument for trangenderism that does not also work for transracialism or BDD. Let's see if anything justifies your making that case special.
Wishin' to be black when you're white, actually believin' you're black when you're white, is just as delusional as wishin or believin' you're a woman when you're a man.

It's exactly the same damn mental illness.

Men cannot become women.

Whites cannot become blacks.

Humans cannot become dragons.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:27 am
mickthinks wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:32 pm Wishing to be identified as of a different race has nothing to do with body dysmorphia or the DSM.
Show me an argument for trangenderism that does not also work for transracialism or BDD. Let's see if anything justifies your making that case special.
You and mickstinks are two sides of the same coin. Pretty rich for you to expect an answer from anyone. You both have brains that have been mashed up by religion.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by Immanuel Can »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:24 am You and mickstinks are two sides of the same coin. Pretty rich for you to expect an answer from anyone. You both have brains that have been mashed up by religion.
Got anything useful to say, or is it just the usual evasion, spite and bile?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by Immanuel Can »

Immanuel Can wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:27 am
mickthinks wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:32 pm Wishing to be identified as of a different race has nothing to do with body dysmorphia or the DSM.
Show me an argument for trangenderism that does not also work for transracialism or BDD. Let's see if anything justifies your making that case special.
So...nothing? Not a single argument?

And yet you insist that transgenderism is in some way special or different from other BDD like transracialism or transablism, deserving of some regard the others are not...and yet just can't say how?

Gee. I guess I have no reason to believe you.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:07 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:01 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:29 am
No need for a rebuttal. Your response has nothing to do with my previous one.
So you are mentally challenged, as it had everything to do with it!
That's hate speech towards the mentally challenged :evil:
To say that the mentally challenged can't understand complex ideas is not hate speech, if it's the particular case, it's just a factual statement.
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by mickthinks »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:58 pm
mickthinks wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:58 pm I don't know what "being able to pass" means...
It just means that most people don't find it obvious that one is a dude in a dress or a girl in pants. Some people can get by without constantly being recognized as trans...few, I grant you, but some. So there's no chance that it's persecution or "not being accepted" that is the problem, because some get fully "accepted," and by rate, just as many are still just as unhappy and self-loathing as those who cannot "pass" as the gender they propose to take on.
Yes, that's why I questioned the phrase. I don't think "being able to pass" entails "getting fully accepted". Which is to say, I see no reason to assume that every trans person who is not constantly recognised is also fully accepted. And there is also the issue of where the lines between "obvious" and "not obvious" (and between "constantly" and "not constantly" and between "not accepted" and "fully accepted") are being drawn for the purposes of compiling statistics which purport to compare the difference.

Be that as it may, not all trans people want to take hormones or to have surgery, but among those that do want to, hormones result in a 27% reduction (8.9% to 6.5%) and surgery results in a 40% reduction (8.5% to 5.1%) of trans people unhappy enough to attempt suicide. Or, in other words;
mickthinks wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:32 pm"a completed medical transition was shown to greatly reduce rates of suicidal ideation and attempts"
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Immanuel Can
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by Immanuel Can »

mickthinks wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:06 am I don't think "being able to pass" entails "getting fully accepted".
Classic.

A guy doesn't know he's a guy, and is so deluded he actually thinks he can defy his DNA and become a girl, and you say the problem is his lack of "acceptance" in the world? :D

If the world "accepted" him, it would be doing him no favour. It would merely be driving him deeper into what is, both scientifically and obviously, a powerful delusion. It would be turning his war against reality into a permanent disaster for him. He'll spend the rest of his life struggling to defeat his own biology and the obvious fact of his given sex. And it's a battle he will lose. Long after his death -- say a thousand years -- an archaologist who finds his body will be able to tell very little about him; but one of the things that will still be factually establishable and certain is his sex.

In contrast, the world's "acceptance" would never make him well, no matter what other effects we posit. It will only make him more sick, more lost, more confused, and farther from obvious reality. We perpetuate the self-torture of "trans-people" so that Leftists and fools can preen themselves as "tolerant" in their own eyes. And that is abominable.

It's treatment for mental illness, not "acceptance" that the mentally-ill need. And that they don't know that's what they need only argues more powerfully for it.
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:36 pm
mickthinks wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:06 am I don't think "being able to pass" entails "getting fully accepted".
Classic.

A guy doesn't know he's a guy, and is so deluded he actually thinks he can defy his DNA and become a girl, and you say the problem is his lack of "acceptance" in the world? :D

If the world "accepted" him, it would be doing him no favour. It would merely be driving him deeper into what is, both scientifically and obviously, a powerful delusion. It would be turning his war against reality into a permanent disaster for him. He'll spend the rest of his life struggling to defeat his own biology and the obvious fact of his given sex. And it's a battle he will lose. Long after his death -- say a thousand years -- an archaologist who finds his body will be able to tell very little about him; but one of the things that will still be factually establishable and certain is his sex.

In contrast, the world's "acceptance" would never make him well, no matter what other effects we posit. It will only make him more sick, more lost, more confused, and farther from obvious reality. We perpetuate the self-torture of "trans-people" so that Leftists and fools can preen themselves as "tolerant" in their own eyes. And that is abominable.

It's treatment for mental illness, not "acceptance" that the mentally-ill need. And that they don't know that's what they need only argues more powerfully for it.
What is the definition of 'mental illness'?
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