JK Rowling vs. History

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: "you and I don't have to grant them the ground"

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:15 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:05 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm Of course not. A man cannot become a woman: he ought not be treated as though he were one.

Havin' said that, this...

FF95556E-1199-4EC9-908A-80F5E38B03C9.jpeg

...still happened, is happenin'.

As I say: we're way past the point of rational or reasonable discussion, on a whole whack of subjects.
Dude is in the Olympics, too. Say "goodbye" to all the women's records in weightlifting, until *the woke types wake up long enough to see what fools they've been.

That'll take some doing.
*crazy folks don't become un-crazy, as a rule, not on their own, and, sure as shit, not when they run, or are damned close to runnin', the asylum.
Well, I've got to say it: in the U.S., the barking lunatics have really begun to run the show.

I watched a clip of Biden today...he doesn't know where he is, what his own history is, or how to frame a coherent sentence, even if he restarts several times. It's pretty clear that the bar is so low a totally mental incompetent can clear it.

How can that guy be President? How can the public have put him there? It's a profound mystery.

He doesn't even have "nice hair." :wink:

But if the level of intellection involved in being a Progressive is exemplified by trans-advocates or the heads of Western states right now, then the bar is really, really low...lower than I ever imagined it could be.
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henry quirk
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Re: "you and I don't have to grant them the ground"

Post by henry quirk »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:23 pm
henry quirk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:15 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:05 pm
Dude is in the Olympics, too. Say "goodbye" to all the women's records in weightlifting, until *the woke types wake up long enough to see what fools they've been.

That'll take some doing.
*crazy folks don't become un-crazy, as a rule, not on their own, and, sure as shit, not when they run, or are damned close to runnin', the asylum.
*Well, I've got to say it: in the U.S., the barking lunatics have really begun to run the show.

I watched a clip of Biden today...he doesn't know where he is, what his own history is, or how to frame a coherent sentence, even if he restarts several times. It's pretty clear that the bar is so low a totally mental incompetent can clear it.

How can that guy be President? How can the public have put him there? It's a profound mystery.

He doesn't even have "nice hair." :wink:

But if the level of intellection involved in being a Progressive is exemplified by trans-advocates or the heads of Western states right now, then **the bar is really, really low...lower than I ever imagined it could be.
*Best I can tell: it's no better anywhere else.

**There is no bar.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: "you and I don't have to grant them the ground"

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:30 pm
But if the level of intellection involved in being a Progressive is exemplified by trans-advocates or the heads of Western states right now, then **the bar is really, really low...lower than I ever imagined it could be.
*Best I can tell: it's no better anywhere else.

**There is no bar.
Yeah, it seems so. Nothing's so absurd, implausible, or just plain stupid that a Progressive won't embrace it. In fact, it seems it's a "virtue" among them to believe ever-more-outrageous things...it shows them "leaders" of their pack.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: "you and I don't have to grant them the ground"

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm Of course not. A man cannot become a woman: he ought not be treated as though he were one.

Havin' said that, this...

FF95556E-1199-4EC9-908A-80F5E38B03C9.jpeg

...still happened, is happenin'.

As I say: we're way past the point of rational or reasonable discussion, on a whole whack of subjects.
Unfortunately, if he doesn't win it will play into the hands of the insane ones.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: "you and I don't have to grant them the ground"

Post by Immanuel Can »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:33 pm Unfortunately, if he doesn't win it will play into the hands of the insane ones.
The cure is simple, but very painful, I'm afraid: it's to let all the trans-dudes into women's events. That's what's starting to happen now, so it's only a matter of time.

When that happens, they'll win so decisively and overwhelmingly that no record will ever be within reach of a real woman again. That's not a speculation, but a certainty; if we look at the current women's records and compare them to the men's records, it's apparent that that is exactly what's going to happen.

At that point, the women may actually realize what they've done, and reverse their stand; and if enough of them see that, and if enough real men are left by that time, there will be a sufficient majority to fix the problem. If that sort of extreme revelation doesn't come about, though, it dooms all women to a situation where they can work for a whole lifetime to become a premium athlete, only to be beaten out of their rightful winnings at the last post by some man, probably not one even good enough to compete with the real men.

And that is just not fair, just or equitable. It's a travesty.

The better route is for real women and the real men to wake up NOW, and do something before the horror show begins. But I can't see them doing that, because they're all drugged with "social justice" propaganda at the moment, and all too terrified of being called "terfs" or "transphobic."
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Re: "you and I don't have to grant them the ground"

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:56 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:33 pm Unfortunately, if he doesn't win it will play into the hands of the insane ones.
The cure is simple, but very painful, I'm afraid: it's to let all the trans-dudes into women's events. That's what's starting to happen now, so it's only a matter of time.

I agree, but if Hubbard loses they will say 'See, it doesn't give 'transpersons' and advantage'.
I'm hoping he will win by an enormous margin, but actually he's not that great even in women's weightlifting.

Wokies have cottoned onto the idea that humans have an innate need to be thought well of by others, hence the constant use of the 'r' and 'p' words to silence debate. When people stop caring so much about their nasty, childish name-calling then the wokies will lose that power.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: "you and I don't have to grant them the ground"

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vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:55 pm Wokies have cottoned onto the idea that humans have an innate need to be thought well of by others, hence the constant use of the 'r' and 'p' words to silence debate. When people stop caring so much about their nasty, childish name-calling then the wokies will lose that power.
Yep, that's the key...to care more about what's actually true than about what other people might say if one denies the pronouncements of the woke and delusional.

Even if Hubbard fails, there have already been a number of men-pretending-to-be-women who have unfairly beaten, or even physically beaten up on women. It will continue and get worse, until it's stopped.

But how many people will be hurt until we get smart? Who knows.
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

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Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:01 pm
mickthinks wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:19 pmIt is self-evident that gender is different from race and species.
It isn't at all evident that it's a difference that makes any difference in this particular case.
I agree, but here's the thing; differences, especially differences as material as the difference between race and gender, can be assumed to make a difference except in special cases. That is the default assumption. You are the one that maintains that all arguments in support of transgender people must work for people who wish to change the race they identify as, or to identify as differently-abled. You have responded to my doubts about that claim as if your claim, that the difference makes no difference in this case, were self-evident and needed no other supporting argument.

But your claim is not self-evident, is it? So the burden lies with you to make some attempt to justify it in the face of the doubt I raised.
mickthinks wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:54 pm Why do you think that race and gender are the same "in trans matters"?

No running away now.
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

mickthinks wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:53 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:01 pm
mickthinks wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:19 pmIt is self-evident that gender is different from race and species.
It isn't at all evident that it's a difference that makes any difference in this particular case.
I agree, but here's the thing; differences, especially differences as material as the difference between race and gender, can be assumed to make a difference except in special cases. That is the default assumption. You are the one that maintains that all arguments in support of transgender people must work for people who wish to change the race they identify as, or to identify as differently-abled. You have responded to my doubts about that claim as if your claim, that the difference makes no difference in this case, were self-evident and needed no other supporting argument.

But your claim is not self-evident, is it? So the burden lies with you to make some attempt to justify it in the face of the doubt I raised.
mickthinks wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:54 pm Why do you think that race and gender are the same "in trans matters"?

No running away now.
Oive just got one word to say to you; SCIENCE..

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Immanuel Can
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

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mickthinks wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:53 pm ... differences, especially differences as material as the difference between race and gender, can be assumed to make a difference except in special cases.
There are very good reasons for believing this isn't "special" in that way. Up until know, transgenderism has been officially classified (in the DSM, for example) as a "body dysmorphic disorder," one not materially different from, say, the desire to hack off and arm or gouge out an eye. So anybody who says, "Transgenderism is special, relative to body dysmorphic disorders," is on the hook to prove why hacking off one digit is wrong, and hacking off another is right.
...the burden lies with you ...
The case is the opposite. It's you who is calling transgenderism different and special. So you need to justify that. Why is transgenderism different from other body dysmoprhic disorders, in such a way that we should indulge the former but pathologize and treat the latter? Or do you make them all the same?
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by mickthinks »

henry claims he has me on [ignore]. Is that because I ask awkward questions like this?
mickthinks wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:46 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:34 pm A sad tale indeed that has almost nuthin' to do with delusional men believin' they're women. Schinegger was/is a hermaphrodite: his transition was corrective, not mutilatin'.
Are you saying that Schinegger was not delusional when he believed he was a woman, Henry? If you are then how are you deciding who is delusional and who isn't?

lol You be the judge ...
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

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Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:46 pm https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/jk-ro ... hp&pc=U531

Social media gets ugly once again.

I think transsexuality is largely frowned upon by many as not being appropriate, as amounting to some sort of deviation from the preferred or natural axis of development of a human being or something. I mean, when I think of someone who is transexual I think of someone with some sort of psychological flaw of some kind. I don't think of it as the way a human being should normally develop psychologically. But I suppose I would be viewed as being a bigot by some for believing that. I mean, is there not such a thing as an appropriate or "healthy" way for a human being to develop psychologically? It seems to me like there is. For example, if someone tends to get very angry and hostile toward others for no good reason all the time, I'd say that was a psychological flaw. I think it's not the end of the world to have a psychological flaw but it's maybe not healthy in some ways to insist that a psychological flaw is not a psychological flaw. Otherwise, it seems like living in denial.

On the other hand, how should others approach someone with a psychological flaw? For example, it may be realistic for a paraplegic not to be a firefighter but it's probably not a very healthy thing to run around telling paraplegics, "hey, you're paraplegic and you'll never amount to anything." I suppose it's not healthy to draw attention to a person's handicap and insist that they shouldn't think of themselves as not having one. Clearly, no one should have to dwell on a handicap as being the last word or say in whether their life is worthwhile to live.

What are your thoughts?
Evidence suggests that the phenomenon is not associated with a psychcological flaw, but a variation in the normal gender assignment mechanism in early life, or in the womb.
In the same way that homsexuality is perfectly natural, gender "dysphoria" is due to innate propensity and not the whim or frivolous wish; it's not a "stage you are going through", it is not a CHOICE.

Like homosexuality it is not a disease that has a "cure".

I saw a serious programme on the BBC some years ago that interviewed several cases across the globe but mainly in the US and UK, which showed very clearly the the biological gender does not always match the cerebral gender. So many people feel they are born into the wrong body and exhibit innate behaviours of the "wrong" gender from an early age.
Another great documentary has recently surfaced to press hom this point..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xh73
If you can get BBC, it is in the documentary series "Storyville" and this episode is called "petite fille", and follows the trials and tribulations of a "boy" who without any encouragement wants to be a girl.

Gender is hardwired. Its just that sometimes the wiring for a girl is found in a boy and sometimes a boy is wired as a girl.

As a society we have a choice: persecute or accomodate.
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

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As a society we have a choice: persecute or accomodate.

Most folks are willin' to accommodate a man in a dress.

What they won't accommodate is bein' bulldogged into callin' that man a woman.

Most folks are willin' to leave that man in a dress be.

The persecutin' starts when that man demands to recognized as a woman.
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Sculptor wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:09 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:46 pm https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/jk-ro ... hp&pc=U531

Social media gets ugly once again.

I think transsexuality is largely frowned upon by many as not being appropriate, as amounting to some sort of deviation from the preferred or natural axis of development of a human being or something. I mean, when I think of someone who is transexual I think of someone with some sort of psychological flaw of some kind. I don't think of it as the way a human being should normally develop psychologically. But I suppose I would be viewed as being a bigot by some for believing that. I mean, is there not such a thing as an appropriate or "healthy" way for a human being to develop psychologically? It seems to me like there is. For example, if someone tends to get very angry and hostile toward others for no good reason all the time, I'd say that was a psychological flaw. I think it's not the end of the world to have a psychological flaw but it's maybe not healthy in some ways to insist that a psychological flaw is not a psychological flaw. Otherwise, it seems like living in denial.

On the other hand, how should others approach someone with a psychological flaw? For example, it may be realistic for a paraplegic not to be a firefighter but it's probably not a very healthy thing to run around telling paraplegics, "hey, you're paraplegic and you'll never amount to anything." I suppose it's not healthy to draw attention to a person's handicap and insist that they shouldn't think of themselves as not having one. Clearly, no one should have to dwell on a handicap as being the last word or say in whether their life is worthwhile to live.

What are your thoughts?
Evidence suggests that the phenomenon is not associated with a psychcological flaw, but a variation in the normal gender assignment mechanism in early life, or in the womb.
In the same way that homsexuality is perfectly natural, gender "dysphoria" is due to innate propensity and not the whim or frivolous wish; it's not a "stage you are going through", it is not a CHOICE.

Like homosexuality it is not a disease that has a "cure".

I saw a serious programme on the BBC some years ago that interviewed several cases across the globe but mainly in the US and UK, which showed very clearly the the biological gender does not always match the cerebral gender. So many people feel they are born into the wrong body and exhibit innate behaviours of the "wrong" gender from an early age.
Another great documentary has recently surfaced to press hom this point..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xh73
If you can get BBC, it is in the documentary series "Storyville" and this episode is called "petite fille", and follows the trials and tribulations of a "boy" who without any encouragement wants to be a girl.

Gender is hardwired. Its just that sometimes the wiring for a girl is found in a boy and sometimes a boy is wired as a girl.

As a society we have a choice: persecute or accomodate.
The most unscientific bullshit I've read in a long time. 'Wired' as a boy/girl :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: JK Rowling vs. History

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:16 pm As a society we have a choice: persecute or accomodate.

Most folks are willin' to accommodate a man in a dress.

What they won't accommodate is bein' bulldogged into callin' that man a woman.

Most folks are willin' to leave that man in a dress be.

The persecutin' starts when that man demands to recognized as a woman.
Well said. No one cares what delusions these people have or how they dress. The problems start when they encroach on the lives of others and demand that everyone else adhere to their claims OR ELSE.
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