Toxic Femininity

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Immanuel Can
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Toxic Femininity

Post by Immanuel Can »

A short video: only about one minute. JP on male-female aggression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd5vyukWL7I

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Age
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by Age »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 9:57 pm A short video: only about one minute. JP on male-female aggression. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd5vyukWL7I

Comments?
Absolutely ANY and EVERY 'thing' is relative to the observer.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Toxic Femininity

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Okay, let's try this.

My female friends have often said to me, "You're so lucky to be a man. You have no idea how brutal girls are to each other." In fact, I've never met a woman who doesn't have "horror stories" about how she's been treated, at one time or another, by other women.

So should we suppose they're lying or exaggerating for effect, or that they're trying to say there are some behaviours in the feminine realm that are toxic?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

That man is talking about American children who are obnoxious spoilt brats. Not all children are like that.
BeatriceMom
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Re: Toxic Femininity

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:25 am Okay, let's try this.

My female friends have often said to me, "You're so lucky to be a man. You have no idea how brutal girls are to each other." In fact, I've never met a woman who doesn't have "horror stories" about how she's been treated, at one time or another, by other women.

So should we suppose they're lying or exaggerating for effect, or that they're trying to say there are some behaviours in the feminine realm that are toxic?
For men, everything is much simpler. Men do not smile in the face and do not pour shit behind their backs. Men are more straightforward and therefore it is easier for them to resolve issues of mutual hostility - it is extremely rare for men to hypocritically pretend friendship. In most cases, if the company is dominated by women, then this is a real serpentarium and an interweaving of intrigue. And, of course, women often more painfully and exaggerately perceive the fact that someone does not like them.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by Immanuel Can »

BeatriceMom wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:53 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:25 am Okay, let's try this.

My female friends have often said to me, "You're so lucky to be a man. You have no idea how brutal girls are to each other." In fact, I've never met a woman who doesn't have "horror stories" about how she's been treated, at one time or another, by other women.

So should we suppose they're lying or exaggerating for effect, or that they're trying to say there are some behaviours in the feminine realm that are toxic?
For men, everything is much simpler. Men do not smile in the face and do not pour shit behind their backs. Men are more straightforward and therefore it is easier for them to resolve issues of mutual hostility - it is extremely rare for men to hypocritically pretend friendship. In most cases, if the company is dominated by women, then this is a real serpentarium and an interweaving of intrigue. And, of course, women often more painfully and exaggerately perceive the fact that someone does not like them.
Hello, Bea...nice to meet you.

I have found your descriptions echoed in the expressed experience of many, many women. And I believe them. I don't think they're exaggerating the case at all. But not having their experiences personally, I'm less than qualified to say for sure. Thank you for your insights, and for sharing your personal experience on this.

A "serpentarium." Nice turn of phrase. And yes, I do think that women feel more keenly than men do the slights and scorns of other women. I don't doubt that the shame and humiliation it causes them is real. And personally, I have found that you have to be more careful about female colleagues than male ones; the male one's will often just "call you out behind the woodshed," so to speak, if they don't like you: but then the matter is settled. Women tend to work more subtly, more long-term, and with a surprising durability of animus. It seems to me they do tend to resort to a kind of character assassination or ego destruction in regard to the other women they dislike, and many try it on men as well. Maybe this is the other side of physical dominance; that women, being less physically powerful, are inclined to resort to other tactics...I can't say for sure.

I guess a good question is what feminine traits we would NOT want to see replicated in males...that might be what "toxic femininity" would be.
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by mickthinks »

Oooh—Another stream-of-misogyny thread!
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:25 am Okay, let's try this.

My female friends have often said to me, "You're so lucky to be a man. You have no idea how brutal girls are to each other." In fact, I've never met a woman who doesn't have "horror stories" about how she's been treated, at one time or another, by other women.

So should we suppose they're lying or exaggerating for effect, or that they're trying to say there are some behaviours in the feminine realm that are toxic?
I'm pretty sure you would find just as many 'horror stories' from women about how they have been treated by men. Unfortunately women get misogyny from both men and women, whereas hatred of men seems to be relatively rare.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by Immanuel Can »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:50 pm Unfortunately women get misogyny from both men and women, whereas hatred of men seems to be relatively rare.
Well, what is the composition of that "women's mysogyny," if we can use that term without self-contradiction?

We are familiar with the old complaints against men; they are routine, and have been rehearsed many times. However, many of those complaints seem to take for granted that women will be just fine if only entrusted to the feminine; that is, to the tender hands of other women and to the dynamics that persist in the world of the feminine. What we need, we are told, is to be "more in touch with the feminine side" -- perhaps meaning "the compassionate," "the empathetic," "the nurturing," "the communal," or whatever.

However, what "toxic femininity" would imply is that the power of women can be, in its own way, cruel. It may even imply that in some ways, being a woman among women is more complicated than being a woman among men.

We're just asking if that's so...and if so, what aspect of "the feminine" accounts for it.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:21 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:50 pm Unfortunately women get misogyny from both men and women, whereas hatred of men seems to be relatively rare.
Well, what is the composition of that "women's mysogyny," if we can use that term without self-contradiction?

We are familiar with the old complaints against men; they are routine, and have been rehearsed many times. However, many of those complaints seem to take for granted that women will be just fine if only entrusted to the feminine; that is, to the tender hands of other women and to the dynamics that persist in the world of the feminine. What we need, we are told, is to be "more in touch with the feminine side" -- perhaps meaning "the compassionate," "the empathetic," "the nurturing," "the communal," or whatever.

However, what "toxic femininity" would imply is that the power of women can be, in its own way, cruel. It may even imply that in some ways, being a woman among women is more complicated than being a woman among men.

We're just asking if that's so...and if so, what aspect of "the feminine" accounts for it.
Who are these people?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by Immanuel Can »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:01 pm Who are these people?
The word didn't appear. So what "people" do you mean?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

You must have very strange 'female friends'...
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by Immanuel Can »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:29 pm You must have very strange 'female friends'...
Apparently not. The complaint about how women treat each other seems pretty universal.

If you've had a different experience....lucky you.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Toxic Femininity

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

For once I agree with Mick. Pointless misogynistic garbage.
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Re: Toxic Mr Can

Post by uwot »

Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:53 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:29 pm You must have very strange 'female friends'...
Apparently not. The complaint about how women treat each other seems pretty universal.
That's confirmation bias. Now that lockdown is easing you should get out more and meet some actual women.
Immanuel Can wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 1:53 amIf you've had a different experience....lucky you.
Having four sisters, two daughters, a mother, wife, various exes, work colleagues, acquaintances and some familiarity with cultural artefacts that say so, there is no doubt that some women are horrible people. You may have noted that JP points out that with regard to male aggression "a small proportion of the boys are that way at two." Most boys experiment with aggression; most of those find they're not very good at it. Some boys though are sociopathic and also find aggression an effective strategy that they continue to exploit their entire lives. So too women; it is a small proportion. You should take off your bible coloured glasses; not every woman is Eve, they don't all listen to talking snakes.
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