ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

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Immanuel Can
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:15 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:54 am
Immanuel Can wrote: And where are the womens rights advocates when you need them ? As usual nowhere
There are many feminists who do not think that trans women have any right at all to occupy female only spaces
That you think they do not exist or are just not speaking out is only evidence of your ignorance and nothing else
Then enlighten me. Where are these significant groups of Feminists speaking out against transsexualism?
Very prominent voices indeed are publicly speaking out at every available opportunity upon this issue
The most prominent is probably Graham Linehan who is very much hated within the trans community
Also lifelong feminist Julie Bindel who campaigns endlessly against trans women in female only spaces
Well, good for them. If they're speaking up, then I'm glad they are. Hooray. About time.

But it seems that these are lone voices crying in the wilderness, over and against the masses of Feminists doing otherwise. When "the movement" marches or holds public attention, that's not what's said. And what gets into the press certainly isn't that. And public policy isn't being made that way right now. Indeed, in most venues, that point of view would not even be permitted to be expressed.

surreptitious57
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:51 pm

Feminism is an ideological movement and like all such movements there will be internal divisions
So it is not a monolithic entity that thinks as one except upon the reason for its actual existence
Which is the social / political / economic equality of the sexes and the eradication of misogyny

surreptitious57
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:05 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
But it seems that these are lone voices crying in the wilderness over and against the masses of Feminists doing otherwise
They are not lone voices at all just the most prominent ones
Feminists are deeply divided over this for it is indeed the single most divisive issue within the movement at this point in time
It will remain like that for a very long time to come - Donald Trump will be long gone before this is ever settled - if it ever is
There is genuine anger on both sides toward each other so there is absolutely zero chance of compromise from anyone at all

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Immanuel Can
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:21 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:05 pm
Feminists are deeply divided over this for it is indeed the single most divisive issue within the movement at this point in time
Terrific. It's an issue that needs to be hashed out, because at stake is the very right of a woman to be woman.

Are there any similar movements to keep males out of women's jails? That's pretty important.

How about keeping men out of washrooms where women are? I'm not really hearing much about that.

Are there any plans for feminists to take on the rampant abuses in Islamic countries? If there are, I have not heard at all.

How about the rights of unborn women? How are those working out?

Hmmm...so far to go.

surreptitious57
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:48 pm

You can investigate all those issues and many others by using that machine you are posting on right now
That is how I became educated about the subject by simply following links and listening to commentary
For me its not about developing a particular view but accessing opinion from across the whole spectrum

Although I am a biological essentialist I have no problem listening to trans women that identify as women
It is not something which directly affects me so I dont have to have a position about the issue in question
However saying I am a biological essentialist would get me labelled as a transphobe / TERF unfortunately
Still I try as much as possible not to be dogmatic or bigoted about this issue because I have much to learn

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Immanuel Can
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:31 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:48 pm
You can investigate all those issues and many others by using that machine you are posting on right now
Well, what you've shown me is that there are a few isolated Feminists who are taking up the issue. That's all. As for the other, related issues, you've offered no evidence they're being dealt with.

So I'm not thinking you've done all that much.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:48 pm
It is not something which directly affects me so I dont have to have a position about the issue in question
So...you're not married, your mother has passed, you have no children, and have no female friends or relatives...? Or you do have them, but don't feel you have a right to care about what happens to them, so you don't want to weigh in?

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Lacewing
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by Lacewing » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:04 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:31 pm
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:48 pm
You can investigate all those issues and many others by using that machine you are posting on right now
Well, what you've shown me is that there are a few isolated Feminists who are taking up the issue. That's all. As for the other, related issues, you've offered no evidence they're being dealt with.

So I'm not thinking you've done all that much.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:48 pm
It is not something which directly affects me so I dont have to have a position about the issue in question
So...you're not married, your mother has passed, you have no children, and have no female friends or relatives...? Or you do have them, but don't feel you have a right to care about what happens to them, so you don't want to weigh in?
What are YOU doing about it or anything you disagree with Mr. Can? Pointing the finger accusingly at people here, and complaining into your online megaphone about all that you condemn while you righteously sit at your computer with your powdered wig on, does not demonstrate that YOU do anything of value about anything for anyone. Your OPINIONS don't solve or prove anything. If you are in such a position to "FIX" what YOU think is wrong, then why aren't YOU doing it? Is it because there's a bigger payoff for you to save yourself the trouble/reality and sit in fantasized glory as you judge everyone else here?

surreptitious57
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:15 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
So I am not thinking you have done all that much
Whereas you have done absolutely nothing at all which suggests to me that you are not really all that interested
How hard is it for you to just type some words into Google and then go read up on the subject in your own time

If you were really interested then you would have done that already and so the only thing stopping you is your apathy
I gave you the names of two individuals and the name of a feminist organisation which you could have followed up on

But instead of that you prefer to bicker with me about my apparent lack of effort while being entirely oblivious of yours

surreptitious57
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:16 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
So you are not married your mother has passed you have no children and have no female friends or relatives ?
Or you do have them but dont feel you have a right to care about what happens to them so you dont want to weigh in ?
This is an issue that only affects women and girls and so it is not my place for me to give an opinion on something that does not affect me
There is enough anger being expressed as it is without me adding my superfluous voice to it all as well and so I respecfully decline to do so

But as I said I do try to educate myself by listening to some of those involved while you would rather do nothing other than bicker on here with me

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Immanuel Can
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:29 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:04 pm
What are YOU doing about it or anything you disagree with Mr. Can?
Well, you don't know what I am or am not doing, do you? :|

But that's ad hominem, and so irrelevant. "Is what I'm saying true," is all that matters, rationally speaking.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:31 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:15 pm
Immanuel Can wrote:
So I am not thinking you have done all that much
Whereas you have done absolutely nothing at all
I don't mean you personally haven't done anything. Chill out, dude. :D

I mean, "You have not done all that much by pointing out one or two women who are taking issue with trans-people." It certainly doesn't show that the Feminist movement, as a whole, is behind that, nor that they are doing much these days about serious women's issues.

surreptitious57
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:50 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
You have not done all that much by pointing out one or two women who are taking issue with trans people
As I have already said once today but apparently have to repeat it yet again [ pay special attention to the words in blue ]

Feminists are deeply divided over this for it is indeed the single most divisive issue within the movement at this point in time
It will remain like that for a very long time to come - Donald Trump will be long gone before this is ever settled - if it ever is
There is genuine anger on both sides toward each other so there is absolutely zero chance of compromise from anyone at all

surreptitious57
Posts: 3838
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:55 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Well you dont know what I am or am not doing do you ?
I DO AND WHAT THAT IS IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL

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Immanuel Can
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:06 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:50 pm
...it is indeed the single most divisive issue within the movement at this point in time...
Yes. So you have said.

But it seems to be a very "internal" matter, if that's at all the case. They're quite unwilling to come out in public over it, for the most part. And the Women's Movement, historically, has only really made its advances by taking positions on the broad, public stage. So so far, they're not doing a lot.

So when will they do it on this issue -- assuming that what you have said is right? You say, not soon.

So in other words, at the moment they're doing a lot of internal catfighting (or so you say: it's "divisive"), but not doing much on the front of changing public policy.

Not worth much, that.

surreptitious57
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Re: ANOTHER TRANNY BASHING THREAD

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:32 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
But it seems to be a very internal matter if thats at all the case
It is not an internal matter at all for it is happening all over the internet and so is about as public as it can get at this point in time
You clearly have absolutely zero interest in learning more either about this issue or about feminism in general so that is it from me

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