Philosophy Now Forum

He isn't a lady, he's a guy: a deluded man.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:35 pm He isn't a lady, he's a guy: a deluded man.

Dude looks like a lady...

But even Steven Tyler knows he's not.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:41 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:39 am
Children are very flexible and resilient...

Really?

The flexibility and resilience of kids is irrelevant.

The matter at hand: should an obviously disturbed man be allowed to parade his delusions in the classroom?

Nope.

This isn't a matter of difference. Untreated, or mis-treated mental illness is not difference.

It friggin' illness.

This here...

if a man identifies as being a female, then he needs to suck it up, put on his adult man pants and acknowledge that he is not and carry on with life as a male citizen and act as a male citizen should act.

...is right on the money, Gary.

No need to second guess yourself on this.

Sure as shit: you got no need to solicit opinions.

You, sir, get a

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:46 pm This here...

if a man identifies as being a female, then he needs to suck it up, put on his adult man pants and acknowledge that he is not and carry on with life as a male citizen and act as a male citizen should act.

...is right on the money, Gary.

Agreed. And such a person is also better for it.

For the dysphoric person to indulge his mental illness is for him not to become the best, strongest, truest human being he could become. It's to spend his entirely life in an impossible struggle against his true nature, biology and reality, and to refuse his moral burden to become the best what-he-is that he can be.

But to struggle manfully against the challenges posed by his disease is to slay a dragon. It's to be a hero. it's to "man up" and deal with reality. He will be more authentic, more noble and ultimately more self-respecting as well, if he takes on that challenge than if he capitulates to his neuroses and indulges his delusions.

Two gold stars.

Thank you, Henry and IC. I appreciate the support. I also want to hear what Sculptor and Lacewing have to say in response. To me, this is an important debate to have and I want to get to the bottom of it.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:01 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:57 am You seem to think you can just fire questions at me, while offering little yourself and ignoring the question I asked you -- so I'm not interested in talking with you further.

How surprising. It's not as if you always give the same 'answer' when you are backed into a corner

You imagine that you put me in a corner? There is NO CORNER from what I can see. I'm perfectly willing to answer all kinds of questions and explore all kinds of topics...but it's uninteresting to do with you due to your antagonistic compulsive hater routine. As for someone who gives the "same answer", consider how many times you've said "PC" on this forum.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:04 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:01 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:57 am You seem to think you can just fire questions at me, while offering little yourself and ignoring the question I asked you -- so I'm not interested in talking with you further.

How surprising. It's not as if you always give the same 'answer' when you are backed into a corner

You imagine that you put me in a corner? There is NO CORNER from what I can see. I'm perfectly willing to answer all kinds of questions and explore all kinds of topics...but it's uninteresting to do with you due to your antagonistic compulsive hater routine. As for someone who gives the "same answer", consider how many times you've said "PC" on this forum.

Seemed like perfectly reasonable questions to me

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:17 pm …

I appreciate your willingness to explore and examine things from multiple sides. So many people are quick to condemn and refuse to consider anything beyond their own thinking.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:17 pm I used to be pretty easy going and "open-minded" but it seems to me now that our society is getting a bit carried away with all this stuff. At what point are we going to draw a line? What about pedophiles?

I agree with you. It all does seem a bit over the top! If I were to meet a bearded man-lady in person, my first thought might be "Okay, this is strange...is this person mentally ill?" But to be honest, I think that about a lot of people who look normal. Next I would pay attention to the person's spirit/energy, and what does that feel like? They may be a perfectly nice and wonderful person, who are just dealing with their own identity.

I don't think that identity can only be defined as "this or that". Our culture currently uses binary gender identification to establish what is "normal". But NATURE is full of variations...and people are much more than just boys and girls and men and women. Bodies may typically form for the purpose of human procreation, but that could change as do all living creatures in nature to adapt to evolution for survival and improvement of a species. Why do we place so much emphasis on the "FORM" instead of the substance?

Being a flamboyant teacher vs. being a pedophile is very different. But I agree with you that society has allowed all kinds of things throughout history. And the people of each era believe themselves the most advanced. The next era is likely beyond our understanding. This is why I think no one over 60 should be making policy for the people who are going to have to live with it in a different world.

I'd also like to point to the fact that there are a LOT OF FUCKING CRAZY people in all roles of society... including those who RAISE children, and TEACH them, and preach religion to them. (It is unknown how the man-lady teacher ranks on that scale; he may be an awesome teacher.) This is why I mentioned that children are flexible and resilient. They navigate through so much confusion and bullshit and abuse. And each generation seems geared for a future that their current generation is deficient in. So I'm not convinced that a bearded man-lady is going to throw them off track!

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:17 pmit's my duty to my society to take my meds so that others don't have to chase me with a straight jacket.

That's very honorable of you, Gary. I wish more people would take responsibility for how their choices impact others (as I mentioned in my other post).

If I felt in conflict with my body gender, maybe I would consider dressing gender-neutral if I were a teacher. Maybe I could wear long robes or something. But I don't know what it's like to feel that way, and maybe that would seem like I was STILL denying myself. Personally, I think clothing and all the other accessories of our lives are superficial, so it doesn't seem like a big deal to choose something less shocking. I still have trouble understanding men who take female traits to extremes...especially since I don't know any women who are so over the top like that. But maybe it's the pendulum response to other forms of extremism and limitation.

Bottom line: There's just so much to consider.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:19 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:28 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:37 pm

Well, if he's mentally ill and symptomatic, then I would question whether he is capable of teaching properly until he is properly medicated so that he no longer thinks he's a female. I mean, what is he going to teach the kids if the class goes into the biology of human reproduction, that they can identify as any gender they want just out of whim?

NO mental illness is implied.

It's in the DSM 5 under the term "Gender Dysphoria".

It's only dysphoria if it presents as a problem to the individual.
Are you saying that all gender deviation is a mental illness - if so then you are out of touch with the world.
Maybe you should live in Islam?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:39 am

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:28 pm…

I think I tend to agree with you on a lot of things.

Something that just popped into my head: Although I think I'm usually open-minded about people being and expressing themselves in whatever way feels natural to them, I wonder about their OWN choices to impact other people with potentially confusing or weird circumstances. What might they be thinking about the effects of their actions, or are they even thinking about that? Is it moreso about them and their rights?

I've experienced a few LGBTQ people who seemed to have such a hair-trigger about their struggles and needs, that they failed to have compassion for others. Ultimately, I think we're all just the same kind of beings animating these bodies and taking on these roles/ideas, and there's no need for so much division. I can understand the pendulum swinging to extremes as a method of balance, though. Just like the "Me Too" movement, long suppressed injustices finally explode through the surface.

Children are very flexible and resilient... and each generation seems to be adapted to a path that is broader than those before. Perhaps most children wouldn't think anything of a bearded lady. Perhaps the bearded lady is a demonstration to them of a larger Universe of potential, in so many ways.

If I had a child, I would let them have a bearded lady teacher. I would have already been teaching them that there are many potentials in this world, and I would do my best to inspire/empower them to be clear about their own path and choices, regardless of anyone else's beliefs/ideas.

Speaking as a person who has had a lot of experience with primary children as a teacher I'd suggest that you hit on the truth here when you say "Children are very flexible and resilient". It's much more than that. It's really only adults that have a problem with this sort of thing because their views are more compressed and inflexible. Children just get it, accept and learn. They are usually way ahead of their parents. The harm to children is more likely to come from their parents' out-of-date bigotry than contact with unusual people.

Gender diversity is not a disease that can be caught. Kids mostly align to straight male of female, and prefer to join in, but for the small minority that have other inclinations is is very important that they have examples in their lives where they can see that it is safe to be different.

I'd not only be happy that this teacher as described was in the school, I'd also applaud the school that gave him/her the opportunity to teach there.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:55 pm It's really only adults that have a problem with this sort of thing because their views are more compressed and inflexible. Children just get it, accept and learn. They are usually way ahead of their parents. The harm to children is more likely to come from their parents' out-of-date bigotry than contact with unusual people.

Agreed! There are so many examples of this throughout history. Why would we current humans think that we're somehow beyond out-of-date bigotry?

I still remember my grandfather's hatred of African Americans, and his absolute disgust over boys with long hair of my generation. "Hey grandpa...check out the man-lady teacher!"

Greater awareness cannot be gained by a limited view of potential. Sure we want to be intelligent about our choices, but limited-thinking is not some kind of pillar of intelligence. There's always a balance and range of things to consider -- and the ability to do that is more demonstrative of intelligence and broader awareness.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:55 pm



Speaking as a person who has had a lot of experience with primary children as a teacher I'd suggest that you hit on the truth here when you say "Children are very flexible and resilient". It's much more than that. It's really only adults that have a problem with this sort of thing because their views are more compressed and inflexible. Children just get it, accept and learn. They are usually way ahead of their parents. The harm to children is more likely to come from their parents' out-of-date bigotry than contact with unusual people.

Gender diversity is not a disease that can be caught. Kids mostly align to straight male of female, and prefer to join in, but for the small minority that have other inclinations is is very important that they have examples in their lives where they can see that it is safe to be different.

I'd not only be happy that this teacher as described was in the school, I'd also applaud the school that gave him/her the opportunity to teach there.

You were a school teacher? Gosh. What a surprise.
Some children are resilient and 'flexible' (I assume that means they 'bouce back').Some aren't. How on earth would their teachers know anyway? Teachers are notoriously self-absorbed and clueless. Good ones are very much the exception. I would say that children are anything but 'resilient' for the most part. Look at how many adults are damaged and traumatised for the rest of their lives as a result of awful childhood experiences.
Yes, children are 'accepting'. They will 'accept' whatever crap adults force on them. Ever heard of Hitler Youth? Why do you think schools are now a hotbed of social engineering by PC fuckturds?

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:55 pm Speaking as a person who has had a lot of experience with primary children as a teacher I'd suggest that you hit on the truth here when you say "Children are very flexible and resilient". It's much more than that. It's really only adults that have a problem with this sort of thing because their views are more compressed and inflexible. Children just get it, accept and learn. They are usually way ahead of their parents. The harm to children is more likely to come from their parents' out-of-date bigotry than contact with unusual people.

Yes, children are flexible. They tend to internalize what they are taught and see. And if they are taught that being transsexual is fine, many more will probably indulge in it than normal. Don't you think so? Do we really want more children to identify as the opposite sex, potentially messing up their adult lives by decisions made at a young age? For example, hormone treatments or even physical surgery?

Gender diversity is not a disease that can be caught. Kids mostly align to straight male of female, and prefer to join in, but for the small minority that have other inclinations is is very important that they have examples in their lives where they can see that it is safe to be different.

It cannot be caught like a cold but it can be imitated. Don't children often imitate elders? Apparently, with all the hoopla that's going on these days about gender, more and more children are reporting being dysphoric. That could be a case of children imitating what they are hearing or seeing in the news.

For example, I remember times in my life when I wondered if I was gay or even bisexual. I was drawn (non-sexually) to males who were charismatic and physically attractive more so than males who were not. I suppose I could have been more adventurous and explored the impulse further but I didn't want the stigma of being gay or bi-sexual. The stigma played the role of a deterrent. Without such deterrents, people are less likely to suppress inappropriate emotions and things of that nature. Likewise, I might be more physically aggressive with people were it not for the teachings of Christ, Buddha, et. al who preached the opposite. Ideas aren't communicable diseases like a cold but they are nonetheless spread from person to person.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:14 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:55 pm Speaking as a person who has had a lot of experience with primary children as a teacher I'd suggest that you hit on the truth here when you say "Children are very flexible and resilient". It's much more than that. It's really only adults that have a problem with this sort of thing because their views are more compressed and inflexible. Children just get it, accept and learn. They are usually way ahead of their parents. The harm to children is more likely to come from their parents' out-of-date bigotry than contact with unusual people.

Yes, children are flexible. They tend to internalize what they are taught and see. And if they are taught that being transsexual is fine,

Transsexualism is in fact fine, so they would be right.