Can a man really turn into a woman?

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Can a man really turn into a woman?

Gender is fluid, mutable, interchangeable, just a social construct (yes).
2
22%
Gender is fixed, immutable, not subject to change, sumthin' concretely intrinsic to the person (no).
7
78%
 
Total votes: 9

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henry quirk
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Re: Lace

Post by henry quirk »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:55 am
henry quirk wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:18 am Just say it: a man can pretend to be a woman, may actually believe he is a woman, but a man cannot be a woman, cannot turn into a woman.
Burden of proof is surely on the 300 lb. guy with the beard and the Adam's apple who says, "I'm a woman." He's got something to show there, and it's going to take more than putting on a dress...unless women are prepared to say that a pair of size 14 high heels and some makeup are all that really makes up a real "woman." No unique woman's mind, perspective, experience, values, abilities, etc.: just a bottle of blush and some false eyelashes.

Not a very flattering thing to say about womanhood, for sure. But they can say it if they want, I guess.
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Lacewing
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by Lacewing »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:16 am You were so close, Lace... 😕
You weren't. Just the same old same old.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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..

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:55 am
henry quirk wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:18 am Just say it: a man can pretend to be a woman, may actually believe he is a woman, but a man cannot be a woman, cannot turn into a woman.
Burden of proof is surely on the 300 lb. guy with the beard and the Adam's apple who says, "I'm a woman." He's got something to show there, and it's going to take more than putting on a dress...unless women are prepared to say that a pair of size 14 high heels and some makeup are all that really makes up a real "woman." No unique woman's mind, perspective, experience, values, abilities, etc.: just a bottle of blush and some false eyelashes.

Not a very flattering thing to say about womanhood, for sure. But they can say it if they want, I guess.
Especially as most women don't wear high heels, blush and false eyelashes. But you have certainly conjured up a pretty picture :shock:

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

I think the list has since grown considerably? Why don't they just have 'wanker'?

Agender
Androgyne
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis
Cisgender
Cis Female
Cis Male
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Cisgender Female
Cisgender Male
Cisgender Man
Cisgender Woman
Female to Male
FTM
Gender Fluid
Gender Nonconforming
Gender Questioning
Gender Variant
Genderqueer
Intersex
Male to Female
MTF
Neither
Neutrois
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Trans
Trans*
Trans Female
Trans* Female
Trans Male
Trans* Male
Trans Man
Trans* Man
Trans Person
Trans* Person
Trans Woman
Trans* Woman
Transfeminine
Transgender
Transgender Female
Transgender Male
Transgender Man
Transgender Person
Transgender Woman
Transmasculine
Transsexual
Transsexual Female
Transsexual Male
Transsexual Man
Transsexual Person
Transsexual Woman
Two-Spirit
Gary Childress
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by Gary Childress »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:37 am I think the list has since grown considerably? Why don't they just have 'wanker'?

Agender
Androgyne
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis
Cisgender
Cis Female
Cis Male
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Cisgender Female
Cisgender Male
Cisgender Man
Cisgender Woman
Female to Male
FTM
Gender Fluid
Gender Nonconforming
Gender Questioning
Gender Variant
Genderqueer
Intersex
Male to Female
MTF
Neither
Neutrois
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Trans
Trans*
Trans Female
Trans* Female
Trans Male
Trans* Male
Trans Man
Trans* Man
Trans Person
Trans* Person
Trans Woman
Trans* Woman
Transfeminine
Transgender
Transgender Female
Transgender Male
Transgender Man
Transgender Person
Transgender Woman
Transmasculine
Transsexual
Transsexual Female
Transsexual Male
Transsexual Man
Transsexual Person
Transsexual Woman
Two-Spirit
No way could I remember all those genders. Talk about confusing...

Maybe "male", "female", and for those who want to make things difficult, "other".
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Lacewing
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by Lacewing »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:37 am I think the list has since grown considerably?
I agree...the list of descriptions and pronouns seems ridiculously over-complicated right now. I don't think the variations are going to go away -- it seems to be the path we're on -- but I think the descriptions/references must surely become more simplified. Otherwise, referring to someone becomes as lengthy as ordering a coffee at Starbucks.
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henry quirk
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by henry quirk »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:21 am
henry quirk wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:16 am You were so close, Lace... 😕
You weren't. Just the same old same old.
😉
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henry quirk
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by henry quirk »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:47 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:37 am I think the list has since grown considerably? Why don't they just have 'wanker'?

Agender
Androgyne
Androgynous
Bigender
Cis
Cisgender
Cis Female
Cis Male
Cis Man
Cis Woman
Cisgender Female
Cisgender Male
Cisgender Man
Cisgender Woman
Female to Male
FTM
Gender Fluid
Gender Nonconforming
Gender Questioning
Gender Variant
Genderqueer
Intersex
Male to Female
MTF
Neither
Neutrois
Non-binary
Other
Pangender
Trans
Trans*
Trans Female
Trans* Female
Trans Male
Trans* Male
Trans Man
Trans* Man
Trans Person
Trans* Person
Trans Woman
Trans* Woman
Transfeminine
Transgender
Transgender Female
Transgender Male
Transgender Man
Transgender Person
Transgender Woman
Transmasculine
Transsexual
Transsexual Female
Transsexual Male
Transsexual Man
Transsexual Person
Transsexual Woman
Two-Spirit
No way could I remember all those genders. Talk about confusing...

Maybe "male", "female", and for those who want to make things difficult, "other".
Another 🌟 for Gary.
Gary Childress
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:57 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:37 am I think the list has since grown considerably?
I agree...the list of descriptions and pronouns seems ridiculously over-complicated right now. I don't think the variations are going to go away -- it seems to be the path we're on -- but I think the descriptions/references must surely become more simplified. Otherwise, referring to someone becomes as lengthy as ordering a coffee at Starbucks.
And what's worse, some of them seem to take offense if you unintentionally call them by the wrong name!
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henry quirk
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by henry quirk »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:09 am
Lacewing wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:57 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:37 am I think the list has since grown considerably?
I agree...the list of descriptions and pronouns seems ridiculously over-complicated right now. I don't think the variations are going to go away -- it seems to be the path we're on -- but I think the descriptions/references must surely become more simplified. Otherwise, referring to someone becomes as lengthy as ordering a coffee at Starbucks.
And what's worse, some of them will take offense if you unintentionally call them by the wrong name!
Be intentional, then. You're not gonna win with these deluded folks, no matter what you do, so you might well piss 'em off from the start, on your own terms.
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Lacewing
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:09 am And what's worse, some of them seem to take offense if you unintentionally call them by the wrong name!
Yes!! The ramp-up of all of this seems very convoluted. I actually don't think anybody should really care or need to know unless they're wanting to hook-up with someone. If I'm hanging out with people as friends, what do I care if they consider themselves one thing or another? Do I need to know? Do I need to announce that I identify as a female? Maybe the main thing is the pronouns we use, related to "he" and "she". It's a big shift to start saying "they" and "their". I wish "they" could have more patience and understanding about the challenge of this process for many of us. They don't need to get mad at us if we're really trying to adapt and be open-minded. But I've had it happen to me.
Gary Childress
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:23 am I wish "they" could have more patience and understanding about the challenge of this process for many of us. They don't need to get mad at us if we're really trying to be open-minded. But I've had it happen to me.
Agree. I try to oblige where I can (I don't want any fights that can be avoided). But it's not easy for any of us dealing with all this confusion.
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Lacewing
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by Lacewing »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:29 am Agree. I try to oblige where I can (I don't want any fights that can be avoided). But it's not easy for any of us dealing with all this confusion.
There seems to be so much rage surging up in the world. People who want to rise beyond the status quo that has held them down, in whatever ways that matter to them personally.

Wild.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:14 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:09 am
Lacewing wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:57 am
I agree...the list of descriptions and pronouns seems ridiculously over-complicated right now. I don't think the variations are going to go away -- it seems to be the path we're on -- but I think the descriptions/references must surely become more simplified. Otherwise, referring to someone becomes as lengthy as ordering a coffee at Starbucks.
And what's worse, some of them will take offense if you unintentionally call them by the wrong name!
Be intentional, then. You're not gonna win with these deluded folks, no matter what you do, so you might well piss 'em off from the start, on your own terms.
Agree. Why should the whole world have to pander to their crap?

''Asia Kate Dillon (born November 15, 1984)[1] is an American actor, best known for their roles as Brandy Epps in Orange Is the New Black and Taylor Mason in Billions. Dillon is non-binary and uses singular they pronouns.[2][3][4] Their role on Billions is the first non-binary main character on North American television,[5] and earned them a Critics' Ch'oice Television Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor in a Drama Series.[6][7][8] They also played the Adjudicator in the action film John Wick: Chapter 3 – Parabellum (2019).'

Bloody yanks.
Gary Childress
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Re: Can a man really turn into a woman?

Post by Gary Childress »

Lacewing wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:35 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:29 am Agree. I try to oblige where I can (I don't want any fights that can be avoided). But it's not easy for any of us dealing with all this confusion.
There seems to be so much rage surging up in the world. People who want to rise beyond the status quo that has held them down, in whatever ways that matter to them personally.

Wild.
Yeah. I can't say I've ever had the feeling of anyone or anything holding me down other than my own foolishness. But I can't speak for everyone. I'm sure it can be very frustrating.
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