Can a man really turn into a woman?

[SpheresOfBalance]

Went right over your head, so I'll say it plainly for the mentally challenged: Ad hominems aren't Ad hominems when they're factual.

False. Period.

Even an inveterate liar must speak the truth at least half the time, if he or she hopes to be believed. Thus, the particular truthfulness of any of his or her statements depends not on issues of character, but on the facts.
See what I mean, totally illogical. The premises were invalid thus your conclusion necessarily false! Can you say idiot?

Likewise, a truthful person can occasionally be mistaken, so his truthfulness does not depend on his character either, only on how the facts correspond to his statement.
Incorrect! A fool is a fool because his fear and want is greater than his truthfulness. Being in denial due to fear, he can admit if he chooses honesty despite that fear. And he can always see these things if he looks at himself closely in the mirror applying what he truly knows versus merely what he believes, those things that he so desperately wants to be the case, due to his fear.

The truly pathetic man is the one far too afraid of himself.

Thus, to argue rightly is to deal with the substance of a person's claims. And to be ad hominem is to deflect attention from the speaker's rightness to his or her character.
Not at all, a nut case is a nut case. While he may require our medical understanding, he certainly does not require our rebuttal to his gibberish. His schizophrenia and epilepsy definitely deserves our cure though!


Watching a person who lapses into ad hominems is like watching an incontinent child lose bladder control in public. One feels more embarrassed for her, because of her inability to hold herself in or to avoid humiliating herself than one feels for oneself.
Could you be any more childish with your flimsy attempt to try and belittle, what did you say about ad hominem being thinly veiled? Oh you didn't, rather simply exemplified it!

See what I mean, you can't tell if your coming or going, puking, spouting, emoting, or just informing us of your exteremely young mental age.

Those that truly believe in leprechaun like beings are holding the truly learned back, lest we put you all in the whitecoats with sleeves that tie in the back, where you surely belong! Can you say rubber room?

[henry quirk]

You're a...

religious freak?

...well I'll be damned.

Your comments have always been largely worthless!

I love you too.

[SpheresOfBalance]

It all depends on what criterion one decides is the determining factor to be considered either male or female. Which is to ask, "is it physical, mental or both determinism?"

If being male/female is a real, objective, stable thing -- no matter what "factor" one pegs -- then one cannot simply move from one to the other without defying objective, stable reality.
Clearly you have no clue as to the point that I made! Is there a smart one among you? I'm waiting for a smart one that can actually think for a change, instead of simply bringing fear, bigotry and age old ignorance to the table!

Heh. "Bigotry."

The "age old" problem you've got there is simply logic. Ascribing a false ulterior motive in an ad hominem way, instead of responding to the reasoning, is what one does when one simply has run out of logic.

There is no "factor" you can isolate that will change the problem I've identified for you. Either gender is a real thing, or it's not. If it is, it can't be changed at will; if it is not, there's nothing to change from or to. There is the problem, in it's very simplest form.

Meanwhile, will you be content to leave transgender sufferers in their confusion and misery, denying them both clarity and therapy, just so you can preen yourself as "smart" and "unbigoted"?

So much, then, for the compassion of the Left!

IC you've never shown any real reason. Rather your half baked delusions. Of course you're free to have them, certainly! I'll defend your right to be delusional till the day I die, but then I'd hope no one would ever take your tripe serious. The sick belong in the care of a doctor, in your case it's a psychologist, maybe a psychiatrist.

[Immanuel Can]

r=#FF0000]Those that truly believe in leprechaun like beings are holding the truly learned back, lest we put you all in the whitecoats with sleeves that tie in the back, where you surely belong! Can you say rubber room?[/color]

Nothing to say, then? Just ad hominems?

A pity, that. But I shall take no more of your time.

[EmmaQ]

My personal opinion is that human consciousness can be either masculine or feminine, not for nothing that in our times there are people with different sexual preferences, as well as androgynes

[gaffo]

If being male/female is not an objective, stable thing, but is imaginary, socially-constructed, subjective or otherwise less than objectively real, then one can move from one to the other completely fluidly, just by changing one's mind, one's society's opinion, or one's subjectivity -- but then, there is no NEED to move at all, because there's really no difference. Both are just imaginary constructs. There is no objective, stable reality either to the gender one is leaving or the one at which one hopes to arrive.

Either way, transgenderism's an illusion. Or more precisely, a delusion.

I do not care about the transgender thing. maybe some folks caught in that trap do, and if they are i wish them well - and support the 1965 civil rights law, if you think you were born in the wrong sex, change it to the other and more power to you.

i do not understand that trap, but do not negate that mentality, only thakful i was born in the same sex as my identitiy personally. so thanks!

[Immanuel Can]

I do not care about the transgender thing.

Fair enough. But I think we can have some compassion for the people who suffer from dysmorphic disorder, and try to help them. Theirs is a miserable lot in life, if left to themselves.

[henry quirk]

I do not care about the transgender thing.

Fair enough. But I think we can have some compassion for the people who suffer from dysmorphic disorder, and try to help them. Theirs is a miserable lot in life, if left to themselves.

As I reckon it: if the deluded man isn't impingin' on others, and isn't askin' for help, then I need to leave him be. My compassion, my good intent, can be an evil, if directed where it's not welcome.

Now, if the deluded man is impingin' on others, then he's a threat, and ought be treated as such, and if he's lookin' for help, then mebbe sensible assistance ought be provided.

[Immanuel Can]

As I reckon it: if the deluded man isn't impingin' on others, and isn't askin' for help, then I need to leave him be. My compassion, my good intent, can be an evil, if directed where it's not welcome.

Can be. But it depends. If the person is making a conscious, free choice, and is harming no one, then yeah, I agree.

If he's enslaved to addiction, or suffering from no choice or fault of his own, or powerless to deliver himself, or mentally ill, then there is no goodness in telling him to carry on as he is.

Now, if the deluded man is impingin' on others, then he's a threat, and ought be treated as such, and if he's lookin' for help, then mebbe sensible assistance ought be provided.

Yeah, and then, too.

[Nick_A]

"The whole idea of compassion is based on a keen awareness of the interdependence of all these living beings, which are all part of one another, and all involved in one another." Thomas Merton

I've experienced over the years that the more profound and realistic the great ideas that have entered society for one reason or another, the more they will be rejected with greater passion. The meaning of compassion as awareness of a universal reality is such an idea. The Christ was aware of it of course which is why he he had to be hated by the world. Such truths are simply intolerable for society living within Plato's cave.

[henry quirk]

"If he's enslaved to addiction, or suffering from no choice or fault of his own, or powerless to deliver himself, or mentally ill, then there is no goodness in telling him to carry on as he is."

But that's the tricky part: assessing incapacity. Sometimes incapacity is obvious, sometime it's not. And: sometimes what appears to be incapacity, isn't. A whole industry has risen up for the express purpose of assigning incapacity, of creating it (or reframing harmless idiosyncrasy into sumthin' malign). And this same industry has been co-opted by folks lookin' to conventionalize aberration.

Joe thinks he's a broad: he's dis-ordered, yes, but that alone is not sufficient cause to go muckin' around in his life or his head (and, sure as shit, we ought not be framing his delusion as a healthy alternative).

[Immanuel Can]

A whole industry has risen up for the express purpose of assigning incapacity, of creating it (or reframing harmless idiosyncrasy into sumthin' malign). And this same industry has been co-opted by folks lookin' to conventionalize aberration.

Right, both times.

Joe thinks he's a broad: he's dis-ordered, yes, but that alone is not sufficient cause to go muckin' around in his life or his head (and, sure as shit, we ought not be framing his delusion as a healthy alternative).

There's two possibilities: either he's lying, or he's telling the truth.

If he's lying, he's playing a game, and we owe him nothing. He's his own problem, but he'd better not harm anyone else.

If he's not lying, he's in need of counselling and therapy, so he can realize that there's no more possibility of him being a woman than of him being a flying saucer or a ham sandwich.

[henry quirk]

Absolutely. Question is: should it be forced on him?

Unless his delusion is accompanied by violence: I say no.

[vegetariantaxidermy]

A whole industry has risen up for the express purpose of assigning incapacity, of creating it (or reframing harmless idiosyncrasy into sumthin' malign). And this same industry has been co-opted by folks lookin' to conventionalize aberration.

Right, both times.

Joe thinks he's a broad: he's dis-ordered, yes, but that alone is not sufficient cause to go muckin' around in his life or his head (and, sure as shit, we ought not be framing his delusion as a healthy alternative).

There's two possibilities: either he's lying, or he's telling the truth.

If he's lying, he's playing a game, and we owe him nothing. He's his own problem, but he'd better not harm anyone else.

If he's not lying, he's in need of counselling and therapy, so he can realize that there's no more possibility of him being a woman than of him being a flying saucer or a ham sandwich.

Why do yanks think that 'counselling and therapy' is the 'cure' for practically every misfortune that life throws at us?
There is a word for the 'counselling and therapy' industry. BULLSHIT. How many self-serving, do-gooding meddlers are cluttering up the universities with their rubbish courses, or have done irreparable harm to untold children and gullible adults with more money than sense?

[henry quirk]

"Why do yanks think that 'counselling and therapy' is the 'cure' for practically every misfortune that life throws at us?"

Cuz we've allowed ourselves to be hoodwinked by an industry that promises cures for every woe. A pill for what ails you; a therapy for what's got you down. As I say: this industry assigns incapacity, or creates it (or reframes harmless idiosyncrasy into sumthin' malign). And they do it for a buck. They farm miserable people like cows, for milk and meat.

All a body really needs to get through is a cup of strong coffee, a pack of Pall Malls, a steely spine, and brass testes.