Lacewing
I thing these are fanciful words that don't really clearly express much. Isn't everything that a person sees, thinks, feels, experiences filtered through the limits of human perspective?
Yes it is their perspective but is that a human perspective. Is an interpretation the real thing. If everyone has different opinions by definition they lack the truth a conscious human perspective is capable of. A seeker of truth knows they are also a victim of this same self deception so seek to learn why it is so and if they can awaken from this self deception sometimes referred to as “sleep.”
Unity with what? Unity suggests there's also separation. That's a religious mindset. I think more in terms of "balance". When we are out of balance -- noisy, untruthful, extreme -- then we don't attain our highest/best potential, and we draw more of that disruption to ourselves.
An interesting discussion. Can we verify if we have the tripartite soul as described by Plato or are we inner unity which just expresses itself differently at different times. I have verified sufficiently for me that I am a tripartite soul. I have witnessed how my intentional aims are countered by my habitual appetites.
https://philosophycourse.info/platosite/3schart.html
Sometimes Plato's division of the psyche into its three main elements can be easily misunderstood. Some who read about it for the first time think it is the same as Freud's division of the psyche into the ego (das Ich), id (das Es), and superego (das Über-Ich), but it isn't the same as Freud's division. Others think it's the same as the old adult-parent-child division, but it's not that either. Nor is it the same as the conscious-subconscious-supraconscious division.
Plato's identification of these three distinct elements of a person's inner life is unique, and can be validated by directly turning inward to one's own experience of the self.
Plato's three elements of the psyche are
1. The appetites, which includes all our myriad desires for various pleasures, comforts, physical satisfactions, and bodily ease. There are so many of these appetites that Plato does not bother to enumerate them, but he does note that they can often be in conflict even with each other. This element of the soul is represented by the ugly black horse on the left.
2. The spirited, or hot-blooded, part, i.e., the part that gets angry when it perceives (for example) an injustice being done. This is the part of us that loves to face and overcome great challenges, the part that can steel itself to adversity, and that loves victory, winning, challenge, and honor. (Note that Plato's use of the term "spirited" here is not the same as "spiritual." He means "spirited" in the same sense that we speak of a high-spirited horse, for example, one with lots of energy and power.) This element of the soul is represented by the noble white horse on the right.
3. The mind (nous), our conscious awareness, is represented by the charioteer who is guiding (or who at least should be guiding) the horses and chariot. This is the part of us that thinks, analyzes, looks ahead, rationally weighs options, and tries to gauge what is best and truest overall……………….
Please explain to me the logic of: evolution as something's movement toward its source. Why would something evolve BACK to its source/origin? How is that EVOLVING?
Actually it is the same IMO. Consider the idea as a kalpa described in the East
Time in Buddhist cosmology is measured in kalpas. Originally, a kalpa was considered to be 4,320,000 years. Buddhist scholars expanded it with a metaphor: rub a one-mile cube of rock once every hundred years with a piece of silk, until the rock is worn away -- and a kalpa still hasn’t passed! During a kalpa, the world comes into being, exists, is destroyed, and a period of emptiness ensues. Then it all starts again.
Nothing can have as its destination anything other than its origin. The contrary idea, the idea of progress, is poison. Simone Weil ...
This is one of these ideas that is difficult to explain but once a person experiences it, it can create an “aha” moment. Progress is the return to the origin of the cycle of time.
Many people do NOT agree or think this way. Your perspective, and the perspective of those you've chosen to emulate, is not the final word on ultimate truth. For example, consider that humankind is just what it is. Like anything, it can evolve in destructive ways, and wipe itself out...again and again. Why do you assign some big spiritual "undoing" to that? Why not love it for what it is? Do you love a child who is foolishly destructive? Do you think "adult" humans are really any different? How could the evolution/mis-deads of humans cause them to be separated from their "source"? Are they that much more powerful than their source? IT MAKES NO SENSE, NICK!
Consider the difference between evolution and adaptation as depicted by the ancient symbol of the cross. Its horizontal line is the line of linear time. It connects before and after. Everything adapts along this line. The vertical line of the cross intersects the horizontal line. Where the horizontal line depicts the span of linear time the vertical line depicts the quality of the moment: the timeless “now.” Evolution takes place along the vertical quality of now and defined by its distance from the source as described in the Great Chain of Being.
Animal man is no more capable of conscious evolution than a dog. Both are creatures of reaction. Man has the potential to become a conscious being. It is referred to as awakening which IMO is the meaning of Christian rebirth. I’m not asking you to believe it but just explaining the rational behind the religious calling much like the moth is attracted to the light..
The problem isn’t misdeeds which are just the natural expressions of the human condition. The problem is the human condition itself. Secular religion makes the mistake of trying to suppress it which is real spirit killer. The key is to see it for what it is, appreciate its dynamics, and make the conscious efforts to free oneself from this unnatural slavery we find ourselves in.
Agreed. But that doesn't mean we're separated from a source. There are many creations that arise and fall. It just seems to be nature, trying everything out. I don't mind being a being who strives to improve the quality of my being while ALSO being a limited human on the stage of life. It's beautiful.
The “we” you refer doesn’t exist. We are a plurality and all sides of our plurality claim to be I. We are connected to our source as a necessity serving a cosmic purpose much like the rest of organic life on earth does moving in cycles. The question is if Man is capable of more than a mechanical necessity and serve a conscious purpose?
So, where have you got to, Nick? After all of your talking, where do you see yourself on this path, and how has it changed the quality of your life? Is this forum the destination or fertile ground for people who are focused on truth and the seed of the soul? That doesn't sound right. I think doing it wouldn't require so much talking about it... especially on this hodge-podge platform. Talking about it seems more like ego.
What I have been fortunate to discover over the years has saved my life. Where I was a working musician who drank too much and was in a state of decline, contemplation on the art of a talented ancestor along with discovering new ideas turned me around inside and my problem became obvious. Where the world didn’t make sense before, now its absurdities made perfect sense because of the human condition.
A forum like this is useful because a person can experience resistance and how it affects them emotionally. The ideal would be the Socratic dialogue which would produce a contradiction. It is through contemplation of the contradiction that a person can move from confidence in the dialectic into the experience of noesis. Naturally that won’t happen. But still once a person realizes why they are controlled by insult it is the beginning of freedom.
Why would a path out into the universe be horizontal? Why wouldn't it be in all directions? Such words/concepts really distort and limit the possibilities, Nick. And I think that's manipulative. I don't care who has said it, and how important anyone thinks they are. We must inquire for ourselves! No one has more of a line on ultimate truth. Yet MANY produce fanciful distortions for one reason or another.
I refer back to my explanation of the meaning of the cross. It is a symbol open to contemplation. It isn’t manipulative. It is the love of wisdom.
Everyone is truly human and worth knowing. Again with your divisions and separations... which, if I may suggest, is very unspiritual. Why wouldn't spirit encompass all? Only man superficially divides, in order to judge, control, own, etc.
People are different. However, we are the same in our ignorance not realizing what we lose by it. Once a person realizes that it is foolish for one idiot to call another idiot, an idiot, there is no sense in judging who is better. We are all in the unfortunate position as slaves to the human condition. My advantage is in my willingness to admit it.