Is sex-selective abortion an immoral thing to do?

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Is sex-selective abortion an immoral thing to do?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

We also need to consider the horrific situation of a woman living in a culture that doesn't value women, being forced by a dictatorial husband to have a late term 'abortion' of a pregnancy that she has carried for possibly half-term and in all likelihood wants to give birth to. It doesn't really bear thinking about. If she doesn't do her husband's bidding then what kind of life will she and her daughter have afterwards? And many women have daughter after daughter. There's no guarantee that the next one will be the 'correct' gender.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: anyone?

Post by Immanuel Can »

henry quirk wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 7:03 pm Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?
She's not getting it, Henry.

She thinks you're asking about feelings, not facts. She doesn't understand that "what the foetus IS" is not an opinion question but an ontological one. So she imagines that it makes a difference what a woman says / prefers to believe / pretends a child is. But of course, it does not. It doesn't even matter what the law says, or what the abortion clinic says it is. It will be what it is. End of story.

But of course she knows this. She just doesn't want to go there, because she senses she'll lose.

So good luck getting an answer from her. Expect a cascade of utterly irrelevant abuse instead.

"Incoming!"
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henry quirk
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nice diversion, veg, but the question stands...

Post by henry quirk »

Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?
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henry quirk
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"She's not getting it, Henry."

Post by henry quirk »

Yeah, she gets it...so does Belinda...so does any woman or man.

Ain't no gray area here.

The woman carries a person or meat.

Which is it?

veg?

Belinda?

Anyone?
Last edited by henry quirk on Wed May 08, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Is sex-selective abortion an immoral thing to do?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Grow up.
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henry quirk
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coward

Post by henry quirk »

:chicken:
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vegetariantaxidermy
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That's rich coming from you.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

..
Dubious
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Re: "She's not getting it, Henry."

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 7:27 pm

The woman carries a person or meat.

Which is it?

veg?

Belinda?

Anyone?
Due to my super refined ability to logically foreshadow truth it follows that since cannibalism has been practiced in just about every civilization known to man that a person is composed of meat otherwise it wouldn't be cannibalism. The only debate is whether we taste like pork or chicken. Only our brains make us different which is presently intent on eradicating all the "lesser" brains on the planet.
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henry quirk
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you're missin' the point, dub

Post by henry quirk »

no :star: for you
Dubious
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Re: you're missin' the point, dub

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 9:31 pm no :star: for you
That's ok, I can live without one. You asked a straight-forward comprehensible question and I responded that we're both. Our brains too consists of meat which, not being satisfied with that outcome, creates all sorts of soul complexes. After all what's more degrading to our sensibilities than simply existing as a piece of meat, of being nothing more than we seem to be? So to enhance our value in the great chain of being we apply miscellaneous layers of metaphysics and invent gods concerned with our welfare. This is how we make intelligence proprietary.

Yes, we're meat containing around 30 pounds of gut bacteria producing a Himalayan amount of shit each day.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: you're missin' the point, dub

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Dubious wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 10:20 pm
henry quirk wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 9:31 pm no :star: for you
That's ok, I can live without one. You asked a straight-forward comprehensible question and I responded that we're both. Our brains too consists of meat which, not being satisfied with that outcome, creates all sorts of soul complexes. After all what's more degrading to our sensibilities than simply existing as a piece of meat, of being nothing more than we seem to be? So to enhance our value in the great chain of being we apply miscellaneous layers of metaphysics and invent gods concerned with our welfare. This is how we make intelligence proprietary.

Yes, we're meat containing around 30 pounds of gut bacteria producing a Himalayan amount of shit each day.
She's meat if she comes across a hungry lion (meat to the lion).
Dubious
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Re: you're missin' the point, dub

Post by Dubious »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 10:26 pm
Dubious wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 10:20 pm
henry quirk wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 9:31 pm no :star: for you
That's ok, I can live without one. You asked a straight-forward comprehensible question and I responded that we're both. Our brains too consists of meat which, not being satisfied with that outcome, creates all sorts of soul complexes. After all what's more degrading to our sensibilities than simply existing as a piece of meat, of being nothing more than we seem to be? So to enhance our value in the great chain of being we apply miscellaneous layers of metaphysics and invent gods concerned with our welfare. This is how we make intelligence proprietary.

Yes, we're meat containing around 30 pounds of gut bacteria producing a Himalayan amount of shit each day.
She's meat if she comes across a hungry lion (meat to the lion).
Very true, forgot that part! Due to my morbid imagination I only thought of people of eating people either whole or in nuggets.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: you're missin' the point, dub

Post by Immanuel Can »

Dubious wrote: Wed May 08, 2019 10:46 pm Very true, forgot that part! Due to my morbid imagination I only thought of people of eating people either whole or in nuggets.
Ah, jocularity. Or should I say, "Deflection."

When the question cannot be answered without losing the argument, make a joke and drag the conversation into the ditch. It's an old strategy, and often a successful one, because it puts fatigue on the side of the obscurantist.

But what it never does, is to answer the question.
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henry quirk
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Dub

Post by henry quirk »

"I responded that we're both"

Okay...me, dumb: didn't see that.

But, based on this...

"Our brains too consists of meat which, not being satisfied with that outcome, creates all sorts of soul complexes. After all what's more degrading to our sensibilities than simply existing as a piece of meat, of being nothing more than we seem to be? So to enhance our value in the great chain of being we apply miscellaneous layers of metaphysics and invent gods concerned with our welfare. This is how we make intelligence proprietary. Yes, we're meat containing around 30 pounds of gut bacteria producing a Himalayan amount of shit each day."

...I'm thinkin' you see personhood as just self-assessement, that there's nuthin' intrinsically unique about a human being, yeah?
Belinda
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Re: Is sex-selective abortion an immoral thing to do?

Post by Belinda »

Regarding foetuses, personhood is not biological but cultural. Henry and Immanuel claim that foetuses should be granted the status of persons.

Although they may never have seen or handled a foetus most people who have seen pictures of foetuses feel affection for and protection towards these little embrionic humans with arms and legs and feel sad that they are being deliberately killed. The ethics of reproduction are therefore very important and all responsible people should pay some attention to this problem.

It's not helpful that some religionists sacralise "life" in the simplistic way they do.

The foetus is not the embryo, and the embryo is not the fertilised egg. The embryo is unrecognisable to lay people until a later stage in the woman's gestation.

The foetus like other living beings merits consideration of its allotted comparable status.
The pregnant mother has a higher status than her foetus because she has already invested her life and energy sometimes in her former offspring , or in
other life-affirming activities.

The foetus's living siblings have higher statuses than their foetal brother because the former have mutual emotional bonds with their mother who has a unique relationship with each of them.

Although the embryo or even the foetus himself may have no personal rights the person that he can become has rights, and the future of the embryo is sometimes better served by his death than by his by his being born. It is indeed a terrible responsibility to come to a decision on the future of the woman's unborn child. The woman needs the best counsel and practical help **from those who know more than the simplistic yea or nay of ,for example , Henry and Immanuel.


** "Practical help": will be either comprehensive support for her and all her children or the surgical procedure with suitable psychotherapy and other aftercare.

The title of this thread concerns selecting the sex of the child via abortion. This is immoral because abortion is too drastic and terrible for the pleasing of males in male dominated societies.

Nobody approves of abortion and it's notable that where abortion is legal there are fewer abortions than where it's illegal. This may be at least partly because sexual activity is aided by availability of contraception in the same places where abortion is legal.
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