Islam for Feminism?

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Logik
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by Logik »

surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:15 pm Some of your examples are extremely trivial indeed : you brush your teeth because its healthy to do so
Theists pray and sing. It is akin to meditation. Lowers anxiety. It's good for mental health.
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:15 pm You visit your doctor when you are ill in order to get better. I would describe these as habits not rituals
Potato potatoh. How you describe them is immaterial. Whether these habbits/rituals have any measurable effects matters.
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:15 pm Arguing with theists isnt mandatory for atheists and I dont do it anymore. I have to reject theistic rituals otherwise
I couldnt be an atheist so thats basically a tautology and therefore only trivially true. And I dont celebrate Christmas
Yes but you have rejected one set of rituals and adopted anothe. Rituals that have some measurable effect on reality. On you.

You may have rejected the traditions, but I highly doubt your human needs disappeared. For a sense of belonging, for a sense of charity and justice. Making a difference. Serving a greater purpose than just yourself etc.
surreptitious57 wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:15 pm I also dont live my life according to what future generations not yet born might think of me because how would I know ?
For an unspecified period which you consider "future generations". Yourself in 2 years? ;)

Bad choices/rituals today can sure make quality of life suck later on in life.
surreptitious57
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Logic wrote:
Yes but you have rejected one set of rituals and adopted new ones
If you define rituals as simply repeated behaviour then this could apply to the entire animal kingdom
It is probably impossible not to live your life without some rituals so the point is somewhat academic
Logik
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by Logik »

surreptitious57 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:28 pm If you define rituals as simply repeated behaviour then this could apply to the entire animal kingdom
It is probably impossible not to live your life without some rituals so the point is somewhat academic
Exactly. Except it's not academic, it's 100% empirical.

Which is why atheism is non-sensical :)

Talking about beliefs is academic. As I keep pointing out nobody can empirically determine my (a?)theism.
surreptitious57
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Logic wrote:
You may have rejected the traditions but I highly doubt your human needs disappeared
For a sense of belonging for a sense of charity and justice. Making a difference. Serving a greater purpose than just yourself etc
No sense of belonging or of wanting to make a difference. No great purpose for myself as I am just an observer passing through
Logik
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by Logik »

surreptitious57 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:38 pm No sense of belonging
So why are you on this community interacting with others?
surreptitious57
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Logic wrote:
For an unspecified period which you consider future generations . Yourself in 2 years ?

Bad choices / rituals today can sure make quality of life suck later on in life
Future generations after I am dead not while I am still alive and certainly not me in 2 years
Bad choices cannot always be avoided and no one can accurately predict the future anyway
Logik
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by Logik »

surreptitious57 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:45 pm Bad choices cannot always be avoided and no one can accurately predict the future anyway
Science can.

That is literally its utility. Forecasting a.k.a prediction.

Naturaly you can argue that it's not "accurate enough", but it's more accurate than nothing.
surreptitious57
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Logic wrote:
So why are you on this community interacting with others ?
There is no belonging here just an exchange of knowledge and opinion from random strangers
I would not use the word community because every one here is just an individual and no more
Logik
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by Logik »

surreptitious57 wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:52 pm There is no belonging here just an exchange of knowledge and opinion from random strangers
I would not use the word community because every one here is just an individual and no more
Shared purpose a community makes. All these individuals seek to exchange knowledge.
surreptitious57
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Logic wrote:
Naturally you can argue that its not accurate enough
Nothing inductive can ever be entirely accurate enough because there will always be errors
The errors can be statistically reduced over time but total elimination is simply not possible
Logik
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by Logik »

surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:01 am Nothing inductive can ever be entirely accurate enough
Sure it can be. You just need to lower your expectations :)

If you are an idealist who wants perfect prediction - good luck.
surreptitious57
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by surreptitious57 »

Logic wrote:
Shared purpose a community makes . All these individuals seek to exchange knowledge
I am very sceptical of this claim for obvious reasons but even if is true it does not apply to me
I am not part of any community here and have never actually thought of myself in those terms
But that notwithstanding it is too small for it to be regarded as any sort of community anyway
gaffo
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by gaffo »

Logik wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:45 am
gaffo wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:08 am yes i agree ritual is probably the most important aspect of Relgion over Dogma.
So if you recognize that aspect, then by calling yourself an "atheist" are you saying that you practice no rituals whatsoever ? ;)
what i am saying is that i focused upon Dogma to the detriment of Ritual - the former i fixate on, the latter i ignore.

you set me straight in your posts. i have no interest in Ritual and much in Dogma - but your post set me straight (my interests blinded me to a bigger vision) - i remain uninterested in ritual, but now less blind (not allowing my personal interests to ignore the bigger picture concerning Religion/Faith).

in other words your post had wisdom. i noted and will try to learn from it.

i thank you for this Sir.

..............................

as to the latter inquary of any rituals i partake as an athiest. (I do not think being an Athiest makes one not one of rituals - i suspect OCD Athiests have rituals. but was born not habit forming (my demon is Alcohol - to bring me out and "feel") - thank god i was not born an OCD, otherwise i would have died of alchoholism decades ago.

born non-OCD, none-habit forming, but BUT introvert!, AL always ALWAYS makes me "happy" "love to my brothers" "emotional" (positive emotions - never dickish/anger)..............but know it will kill me, and know (thank god not born of habbits) - and being humble and noting all this, try to not let AL rule and ruin me, and and at the same time thankful I'm not OCD, and do not condemn others born like me - introverted, but unlike me, OCD - for them AL is clearly DEATH, for me it is less so, but knowing how much i like it and know i partake too much of (like when i post here - lol - but its ok, most folks here have minds for disscussion, so its good) - I only thank God that i was born the opposite of "habit forming"

BTW I've smoke cigarettes for decades as a "chipper" (recreasional) - smoke after drunk, not when sober, cigs are bad (but the "high" - 30 sec or so from that first drag is FAB (unfiltered only ). If you smoke more than a couple of cigs a day, you loose the 1/2 minute high, and the reason to smoke IMO.

Cigs are not my demon (I ignore then when sober), Al is, but thankful not OCD - and so may be able to deal with, other that are OCD and intreverts also, my God have mercy upon then.

- per your inquary, no, i have no rituals to the best of my knowledge.

thanks for your reply and for being a Gentleman too.
gaffo
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Re: Islam for Feminism?

Post by gaffo »

Logik wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:04 am
surreptitious57 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:01 am Nothing inductive can ever be entirely accurate enough
Sure it can be. You just need to lower your expectations :)

If you are an idealist who wants perfect prediction - good luck.
Idealists are not perfectionists.

the former strive for the good and appreciate the progress toward, the latter demand it (the full end product of "good/progress" - and ignore the progress toward the good), and it not reached condemn the progress toward that good.


.....................re-read the repy in this thread.................and took notes......................

drunk, and so misread "prediction" as "perfection" - but will let my post remain, for in my mind it seems apt in my overall view on such matters.

my bad and appoligies for butting in and replying via a misreading of your post.
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