Lawrence Krauss

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fooloso4
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by fooloso4 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:30 pm

Vegetariantaxidermy:
'Noise'? Everything you don't agree with is 'noise'?
Only what is irrelevant to the issue. You said nothing about what he was actually accused of. Whether or not the accusations were PC hysteria cannot be determined without reference to those allegations. Some, none, or all of them might have been a hypersensitive overreaction or power play, but that cannot be discussed without specifically identifying them. Whether he did what he was accused of has nothing to do with PC or being one of the greatest scientific minds and educators in the world or the rest of it. Only after it is clear what he was accused of and how credible the allegations are can we begin to discuss what, if anything, should be done.

But this is not just about Krauss, the same issues must be addressed in each and every case. What the facts are and what should be done will vary from case to case. It is a mistake to just dismiss all of them as PC, just as it would be to treat them all as if the accused is Bill Cosby.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:46 am

Look it up yourself. I've had it with your dishonest and disingenuous bullshit. I'm pretty sure I wrote a thread on Cosby too which was totally ignored, so stick your slimy insinuations up your arse.

fooloso4
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by fooloso4 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:02 pm

vegetariantaxidermy, it’s really not about Krauss, or PC, or even philosophy for you, is it? I don’t know if it is all just an online game you are playing or if there is something deep and disturbing that you are struggling with. In either case, I am not interested being involved.

Despite your steady stream of insults, I wish you no ill will, for I know it is not about me either.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:53 pm

fooloso4 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:02 pm
vegetariantaxidermy, it’s really not about Krauss, or PC, or even philosophy for you, is it? I don’t know if it is all just an online game you are playing or if there is something deep and disturbing that you are struggling with. In either case, I am not interested being involved.

Despite your steady stream of insults, I wish you no ill will, for I know it is not about me either.
ROFL. How condescending. Yes. Actually it is about you and your ilk, and your transparent insults are water off a duck's back. Arguments with PCturds always end the same way; with them stalking off in a huff. Job done then :D

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Gary Childress
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by Gary Childress » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:58 am

This is the first I'd heard of this story. Here's an article I just Googled on it. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... te/573844/

I also heard that Hawking attended some sort of sex club/ranch on the US West coast a few times.

Here's a video from one of Krauss' accusers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr9OIty2XGg

She'll probably happily marry a bartender and raise his 3 kids or something one of these days. Although, I guess from a potential female perspective, Krauss seems to be aiming pretty low himself.

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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by -1- » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:48 pm

Gary, please show a video of Stephen Hawking having a romp on the sex farm in the US of A.

Would make infinitely more entertaining, not to mention credible, news reporting than that shit by that little hussy.

fooloso4
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by fooloso4 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:54 pm

Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:58 am
This is the first I'd heard of this story. Here's an article I just Googled on it. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... te/573844/

I also heard that Hawking attended some sort of sex club/ranch on the US West coast a few times.

Here's a video from one of Krauss' accusers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr9OIty2XGg

She'll probably happily marry a bartender and raise his 3 kids or something one of these days. Although, I guess from a potential female perspective, Krauss seems to be aiming pretty low himself.

If whatever Hawking did at such a club was consensual I see no problem with it. Given the purpose of the club there is much more leeway in what might be considered inappropriate behavior.

As to Krauss, given the number of accusations and the time span in which they are said to have occurred it seems likely that at least some of them are true. Since the Buzzfeed article there have been more allegations. Here is an interesting “insider” article:
https://medium.com/@philosophytorres/he ... c444b2d715

Some have attempted to frame this as an attack on him because he is an atheist. This is what Jerry Coyne  said:
After [the Buzzfeed] article appeared, I did some digging on my own, and came up with three cases that have convinced me that Krauss engaged in sexual predation of both a physical nature (groping) and of a verbal nature (offensive and harassing comments). The allegations that convinced me are not public, but the accusers are sufficiently credible that I believe their claims to be true. Further, these claims buttress the general allegation of sexual misbehavior made in BuzzFeed. In my view, then, Krauss had a propensity to engage in sexual misconduct. I therefore disassociate myself from the man.
And Sam Harris:
… the fact that there’s this much chatter about how he’s behaved is certainly a cause for concern. And I can say in the aftermath of this article, I have since heard from people who have not gone on the record, who did not want to be a source for any public allegation about Lawrence, but who assure me that these kinds of stories are true. So, I can offer no defense of Lawrence here. … I can only hope that he makes some appropriate, and honest, mea culpa. … Saying that it’s all lies is almost certainly not going to work for him because it’s almost certainly not true.
The article quotes several other sources. For anyone to dismiss this as metoo hysteria is to bury your head in the sand.

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Gary Childress
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by Gary Childress » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:00 am

fooloso4 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:54 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:58 am
This is the first I'd heard of this story. Here's an article I just Googled on it. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... te/573844/

I also heard that Hawking attended some sort of sex club/ranch on the US West coast a few times.

Here's a video from one of Krauss' accusers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr9OIty2XGg

She'll probably happily marry a bartender and raise his 3 kids or something one of these days. Although, I guess from a potential female perspective, Krauss seems to be aiming pretty low himself.

If whatever Hawking did at such a club was consensual I see no problem with it. Given the purpose of the club there is much more leeway in what might be considered inappropriate behavior.

As to Krauss, given the number of accusations and the time span in which they are said to have occurred it seems likely that at least some of them are true. Since the Buzzfeed article there have been more allegations. Here is an interesting “insider” article:
https://medium.com/@philosophytorres/he ... c444b2d715

Some have attempted to frame this as an attack on him because he is an atheist. This is what Jerry Coyne  said:
After [the Buzzfeed] article appeared, I did some digging on my own, and came up with three cases that have convinced me that Krauss engaged in sexual predation of both a physical nature (groping) and of a verbal nature (offensive and harassing comments). The allegations that convinced me are not public, but the accusers are sufficiently credible that I believe their claims to be true. Further, these claims buttress the general allegation of sexual misbehavior made in BuzzFeed. In my view, then, Krauss had a propensity to engage in sexual misconduct. I therefore disassociate myself from the man.
And Sam Harris:
… the fact that there’s this much chatter about how he’s behaved is certainly a cause for concern. And I can say in the aftermath of this article, I have since heard from people who have not gone on the record, who did not want to be a source for any public allegation about Lawrence, but who assure me that these kinds of stories are true. So, I can offer no defense of Lawrence here. … I can only hope that he makes some appropriate, and honest, mea culpa. … Saying that it’s all lies is almost certainly not going to work for him because it’s almost certainly not true.
The article quotes several other sources. For anyone to dismiss this as metoo hysteria is to bury your head in the sand.
It must suck to be attractive. Look on the bright side, though. When she gets old, fat and/or wrinkly she'll be forgotten and no one will pay any more attention to her. She'll never be "sexually harassed" again. Nirvana awaits!

fooloso4
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by fooloso4 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:39 am

Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:00 am
fooloso4 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:54 pm
Gary Childress wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:58 am
This is the first I'd heard of this story. Here's an article I just Googled on it. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... te/573844/

I also heard that Hawking attended some sort of sex club/ranch on the US West coast a few times.

Here's a video from one of Krauss' accusers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr9OIty2XGg

She'll probably happily marry a bartender and raise his 3 kids or something one of these days. Although, I guess from a potential female perspective, Krauss seems to be aiming pretty low himself.

If whatever Hawking did at such a club was consensual I see no problem with it. Given the purpose of the club there is much more leeway in what might be considered inappropriate behavior.

As to Krauss, given the number of accusations and the time span in which they are said to have occurred it seems likely that at least some of them are true. Since the Buzzfeed article there have been more allegations. Here is an interesting “insider” article:
https://medium.com/@philosophytorres/he ... c444b2d715

Some have attempted to frame this as an attack on him because he is an atheist. This is what Jerry Coyne  said:
After [the Buzzfeed] article appeared, I did some digging on my own, and came up with three cases that have convinced me that Krauss engaged in sexual predation of both a physical nature (groping) and of a verbal nature (offensive and harassing comments). The allegations that convinced me are not public, but the accusers are sufficiently credible that I believe their claims to be true. Further, these claims buttress the general allegation of sexual misbehavior made in BuzzFeed. In my view, then, Krauss had a propensity to engage in sexual misconduct. I therefore disassociate myself from the man.
And Sam Harris:
… the fact that there’s this much chatter about how he’s behaved is certainly a cause for concern. And I can say in the aftermath of this article, I have since heard from people who have not gone on the record, who did not want to be a source for any public allegation about Lawrence, but who assure me that these kinds of stories are true. So, I can offer no defense of Lawrence here. … I can only hope that he makes some appropriate, and honest, mea culpa. … Saying that it’s all lies is almost certainly not going to work for him because it’s almost certainly not true.
The article quotes several other sources. For anyone to dismiss this as metoo hysteria is to bury your head in the sand.
It must suck to be attractive. Look on the bright side, though. When she gets old, fat and/or wrinkly she'll be forgotten and no one will pay any more attention to her. She'll never be "sexually harassed" again. Nirvana awaits!
Who is "she"? He has apparently been doing this for a long time to a lot of women. Attractiveness should not be a liability.

Frank N Stein
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by Frank N Stein » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:07 am

''Who is "she"? He has apparently been doing this for a long time to a lot of women. Attractiveness should not be a liability.''

What has he been doing for a long time? Making passes at women? Oh my dear lord. Would you care to take one of his testicles and I will take the other? We can both pull at the same time.

Frank N Stein
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by Frank N Stein » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:42 am

fooloso4 wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:39 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:00 am
fooloso4 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:54 pm



If whatever Hawking did at such a club was consensual I see no problem with it. Given the purpose of the club there is much more leeway in what might be considered inappropriate behavior.

As to Krauss, given the number of accusations and the time span in which they are said to have occurred it seems likely that at least some of them are true. Since the Buzzfeed article there have been more allegations. Here is an interesting “insider” article:
https://medium.com/@philosophytorres/he ... c444b2d715

Some have attempted to frame this as an attack on him because he is an atheist. This is what Jerry Coyne  said:



And Sam Harris:



The article quotes several other sources. For anyone to dismiss this as metoo hysteria is to bury your head in the sand.
It must suck to be attractive. Look on the bright side, though. When she gets old, fat and/or wrinkly she'll be forgotten and no one will pay any more attention to her. She'll never be "sexually harassed" again. Nirvana awaits!
Who is "she"? He has apparently been doing this for a long time to a lot of women. Attractiveness should not be a liability.
Have you heard of Asia Argento? She is a leader in the #MeToo movement and has been accused of having inappropriate sexual relations with a 17 year old when she was 37. Perhaps this will be the outcome of the movement, that young males will start to speak out about inappropriate behavior by females. Do you think this would be a good or a bad thing? 37 and 17 seems a bit whacked-up to me.

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Gary Childress
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by Gary Childress » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:10 pm

fooloso4 wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:39 am
He has apparently been doing this for a long time to a lot of women.
Maybe you have a point there. Although, it sounds like he is getting penalized for his behavior these days.

fooloso4
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by fooloso4 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:42 pm

Frank N Stein wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:42 am
fooloso4 wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:39 am
Gary Childress wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:00 am


It must suck to be attractive. Look on the bright side, though. When she gets old, fat and/or wrinkly she'll be forgotten and no one will pay any more attention to her. She'll never be "sexually harassed" again. Nirvana awaits!
Who is "she"? He has apparently been doing this for a long time to a lot of women. Attractiveness should not be a liability.
Have you heard of Asia Argento? She is a leader in the #MeToo movement and has been accused of having inappropriate sexual relations with a 17 year old when she was 37. Perhaps this will be the outcome of the movement, that young males will start to speak out about inappropriate behavior by females. Do you think this would be a good or a bad thing? 37 and 17 seems a bit whacked-up to me.

Image

I am a bit ambivalent. In part the question is whether a sexual relationship between a 37 and 17 year old is in itself inappropriate. Between a teacher and student, a boss and employee, a president and intern I think it is, but then again, the inappropriateness of such a relationship is not based entirely on age differences.

The age difference is significant enough that I would not enter into such a relationship as the older person and when I was younger would not have thought that someone that old would be interested in me. But if she was … I might have been okay with it. But the decisions I made at 17 are not the decisions I would have made at 37. If I had been in such a relationship I do not know how I would feel about it now; whether I would think that as the more mature person she should have been aware of my immaturity and took advantage of it, or perhaps I would have thought it was a wonderful experience.

As a parent of a 17 year old I would not approve, but I will let others work out such things for themselves. I may not approve but that does not mean I would act on my disapproval.

As to the specifics of this case, would he have made the same accusations against a 17 year old woman? Was he a willing participant or in some way coerced? She may have sexually abused him, but whether or not she did has no bearing on whether she herself was sexually abused by Weinstein. There were many allegations against Weinstein, if there was a similar pattern in Argento’s behavior it would be far more likely that she is guilty of sexual abuse, but even if that were the case it does not mean she is not also the victim of sexual abuse.

Frank N Stein
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by Frank N Stein » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:20 pm

fooloso4 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:42 pm
Frank N Stein wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:42 am
fooloso4 wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:39 am


Who is "she"? He has apparently been doing this for a long time to a lot of women. Attractiveness should not be a liability.
Have you heard of Asia Argento? She is a leader in the #MeToo movement and has been accused of having inappropriate sexual relations with a 17 year old when she was 37. Perhaps this will be the outcome of the movement, that young males will start to speak out about inappropriate behavior by females. Do you think this would be a good or a bad thing? 37 and 17 seems a bit whacked-up to me.

Image

I am a bit ambivalent. In part the question is whether a sexual relationship between a 37 and 17 year old is in itself inappropriate. Between a teacher and student, a boss and employee, a president and intern I think it is, but then again, the inappropriateness of such a relationship is not based entirely on age differences.

The age difference is significant enough that I would not enter into such a relationship as the older person and when I was younger would not have thought that someone that old would be interested in me. But if she was … I might have been okay with it. But the decisions I made at 17 are not the decisions I would have made at 37. If I had been in such a relationship I do not know how I would feel about it now; whether I would think that as the more mature person she should have been aware of my immaturity and took advantage of it, or perhaps I would have thought it was a wonderful experience.

As a parent of a 17 year old I would not approve, but I will let others work out such things for themselves. I may not approve but that does not mean I would act on my disapproval.

As to the specifics of this case, would he have made the same accusations against a 17 year old woman? Was he a willing participant or in some way coerced? She may have sexually abused him, but whether or not she did has no bearing on whether she herself was sexually abused by Weinstein. There were many allegations against Weinstein, if there was a similar pattern in Argento’s behavior it would be far more likely that she is guilty of sexual abuse, but even if that were the case it does not mean she is not also the victim of sexual abuse.
Apparently he claims to be disgusted and feels he was abused. It's not really about what you consider to be inappropriate is it? I believe sex with a 17 year old used to be called 'statutory rape' in the United States (where you are from?). Perhaps it still is.
I'm surprised at such double standards on a philosophy forum.

fooloso4
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Re: Lawrence Krauss

Post by fooloso4 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:04 pm

[/quote] Apparently he claims to be disgusted and feels he was abused. It's not really about what you consider to be inappropriate is it? I believe sex with a 17 year old used to be called 'statutory rape' in the United States (where you are from?). Perhaps it still is.
I'm surprised at such double standards on a philosophy forum.
[/quote]

You said:
She is a leader in the #MeToo movement and has been accused of having inappropriate sexual relations with a 17 year old when she was 37.
This opens the question of what inappropriate sexual relations are. One way to address this is by appeal to the law, but this is not a legal forum, it is a philosophy forum. A discussion of the various issues of inappropriate sexual relations including what we consider to be inappropriate is what it is really about.

In the U.S. the age of consent differs from state to state - from 16 to 18.


What double standard?

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