What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

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Eodnhoj7
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What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:56 am

Real simple question: What solutions are available that allows a healing of the division between the sexes in our time? This is considering both sides saying "you are wrong" does not appear to work.

Should men and women just start by apologizing to eachother and say "These are chaotic times, neither of know what we are doing, how can we move past this?"

And saying "it will never happen" is not a solution, but rather a negation...so I don't want to here what "can't" be done...that is a cheap cop-out as it is despair driven. I am tired of hearing "no", as "no" is not an answer.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Viveka » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 am

We could look to Norway for an example of feminism in action:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_ ... f_politics

Feminism is about equality, not superiority:

"The fathers quota has up until 2013 been 14 weeks and is reserved for the father/co-mother. From 2013 this law was changed so that the parental leave was parted into three parts with equally long sections (14 weeks) where one part is reserved for the mother and another for the father. 6 weeks of the mothers quota has to be taken out in association with birth.[5] The fathers quota as of July 1, 2014 has been changed from 14 weeks to 10 weeks.[6] This applies to all parents that have children after this date. The purpose of the fathers quota has been to contribute to a more equal distribution of care taking between mothers and fathers. "

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:36 am

Viveka wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 am
We could look to Norway for an example of feminism in action:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_ ... f_politics

Feminism is about equality, not superiority:

"The fathers quota has up until 2013 been 14 weeks and is reserved for the father/co-mother. From 2013 this law was changed so that the parental leave was parted into three parts with equally long sections (14 weeks) where one part is reserved for the mother and another for the father. 6 weeks of the mothers quota has to be taken out in association with birth.[5] The fathers quota as of July 1, 2014 has been changed from 14 weeks to 10 weeks.[6] This applies to all parents that have children after this date. The purpose of the fathers quota has been to contribute to a more equal distribution of care taking between mothers and fathers. "
Norway has a very low birth rate.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=norway+bi ... 2C99B52873

If anything if observes men and women cannot work together to raise a family. They are being outbred by muslim immigrants, if I remember correctly. A solid birthrate, would imply mutual cooperation between the sexes. The inability to hold a family together implies lack of mutual agreement, and a sense of weakness and mistrust. Countries live and die according to their birthrates.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:38 am

In simpler terms, you need a population in order to support rights.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Viveka » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:43 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:36 am
Viveka wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 am
We could look to Norway for an example of feminism in action:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_ ... f_politics

Feminism is about equality, not superiority:

"The fathers quota has up until 2013 been 14 weeks and is reserved for the father/co-mother. From 2013 this law was changed so that the parental leave was parted into three parts with equally long sections (14 weeks) where one part is reserved for the mother and another for the father. 6 weeks of the mothers quota has to be taken out in association with birth.[5] The fathers quota as of July 1, 2014 has been changed from 14 weeks to 10 weeks.[6] This applies to all parents that have children after this date. The purpose of the fathers quota has been to contribute to a more equal distribution of care taking between mothers and fathers. "
Norway has a very low birth rate.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=norway+bi ... 2C99B52873

If anything if observes men and women cannot work together to raise a family. They are being outbred by muslim immigrants, if I remember correctly. A solid birthrate, would imply mutual cooperation between the sexes. The inability to hold a family together implies lack of mutual agreement, and a sense of weakness and mistrust. Countries live and die according to their birthrates.
A low birth rate doesn't mean mistrust. It could simply mean that people are more satisfied living without children and working without being a stay-at-home mom or dad. Children are a lot of time and money, and this division of time off between father and mother during work leave is a good idea for feminism regardless.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am

Viveka wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:43 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:36 am
Viveka wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:29 am
We could look to Norway for an example of feminism in action:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism_ ... f_politics

Feminism is about equality, not superiority:

"The fathers quota has up until 2013 been 14 weeks and is reserved for the father/co-mother. From 2013 this law was changed so that the parental leave was parted into three parts with equally long sections (14 weeks) where one part is reserved for the mother and another for the father. 6 weeks of the mothers quota has to be taken out in association with birth.[5] The fathers quota as of July 1, 2014 has been changed from 14 weeks to 10 weeks.[6] This applies to all parents that have children after this date. The purpose of the fathers quota has been to contribute to a more equal distribution of care taking between mothers and fathers. "
Norway has a very low birth rate.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=norway+bi ... 2C99B52873

If anything if observes men and women cannot work together to raise a family. They are being outbred by muslim immigrants, if I remember correctly. A solid birthrate, would imply mutual cooperation between the sexes. The inability to hold a family together implies lack of mutual agreement, and a sense of weakness and mistrust. Countries live and die according to their birthrates.
A low birth rate doesn't mean mistrust. It could simply mean that people are more satisfied living without children and working without being a stay-at-home mom or dad. Children are a lot of time and money, and this division of time off between father and mother during work leave is a good idea for feminism regardless.
That is the point, is time and money more important than children? Would I, or you, exist if money and time where placed at a higher value than our lives. In a seperate respect, each child is a potential resource of further time and money. Children, grow up and work, in turn they extend generations across the gap of time, while simultaneously manifesting an inherent income.

Time and money is strictly an extension of people, as people observe time and money. Without people, time and money are without value as no form of consciousness would be able to give "meaning" to them.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:48 am

The next problem occurs, that in respect to Norway and countries with low birthrates, there value systems are inherently erase by immigration from countries that have higher birthrates. Birthrate is one of the foundations for a culture as it determines the cultures value and stability across time. What may be a "right" today in Norway, may not be a right tomorrow due to quantitative societal degeneration.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Viveka » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:22 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
That is the point, is time and money more important than children? Would I, or you, exist if money and time where placed at a higher value than our lives. In a seperate respect, each child is a potential resource of further time and money. Children, grow up and work, in turn they extend generations across the gap of time, while simultaneously manifesting an inherent income.

Time and money is strictly an extension of people, as people observe time and money. Without people, time and money are without value as no form of consciousness would be able to give "meaning" to them.
This thread is about feminism is it not? Norway has done great with feminism, allowing women and men to work with or without children, and women preferring to work rather than have children. Women preferring to work without children is a feminists plus, as they wouldn't have to perform the traditional and 'oppressing' role of at-home mom or dad, especially if it is forced upon them by a pregnancy unintended. Culture can spread or not regardless of generations, as I am an example of such. I believe in a wide range of things, and neither my father's nor my mother's culture has changed that except for the morals my mother taught me from a young age. I believe the culture we have now is the 'internet culture.' We have such a vast amount of information and beliefs articulated at the click of a button that we no longer need to have a culture of our own or tradition that passes through generations. In fact, I wish that we *did* have traditions that were more stable and based upon our upbringing, especially morals and etiquette.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:07 am

Viveka wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:22 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
That is the point, is time and money more important than children? Would I, or you, exist if money and time where placed at a higher value than our lives. In a seperate respect, each child is a potential resource of further time and money. Children, grow up and work, in turn they extend generations across the gap of time, while simultaneously manifesting an inherent income.

Time and money is strictly an extension of people, as people observe time and money. Without people, time and money are without value as no form of consciousness would be able to give "meaning" to them.
This thread is about feminism is it not?
It is about healing the divide between the sexes, unity is not troubled by lack of equality.

Norway has done great with feminism, allowing women and men to work with or without children, and women preferring to work rather than have children.
Last time I checked, Norway along with many western countries that emphasizing feminism, where being overrun by non-feminists. The political structure of feminist states causes a void in population that is conducive to immigration. In these respects it is self-defeating.

In a seperate respect the majority of work in feminist based countries, emphasizes the entertainment industry and industries disposed to producing leasure products. The problem occurs that many of these industrial products cause a drain on the natural resources leading to wars and conflicts in 3rd world countries, which in turn causes immigration.

If a family places importance on making financial wealth, more than what is needed, over having children does this place an emphasis on the importance of money over people?


Women preferring to work without children is a feminists plus, as they wouldn't have to perform the traditional and 'oppressing' role of at-home mom or dad, especially if it is forced upon them by a pregnancy unintended.
If being at home is "oppressing", what differs from that form of oppression and doing hard labor, military service, etc.? Is sitting at a desk all day updating financial records less oppressive?

In regards to the unintended pregnancy, what is sex for but procreation? I understand people "mess up" and life can get in the way, but institutionalizing a moral system where certain aspect of the human condition are placed on a pedestal and taking out of context cause many unintended psychological problems.

Can a woman be scarred emotionally from too much sex with too many men? If a woman, has sex without being open to the possibility of having children, how does that not objectify her as a simple sex object? Is she objectifying herself?


Culture can spread or not regardless of generations, as I am an example of such. I believe in a wide range of things, and neither my father's nor my mother's culture has changed that except for the morals my mother taught me from a young age. I believe the culture we have now is the 'internet culture.' We have such a vast amount of information and beliefs articulated at the click of a button that we no longer need to have a culture of our own or tradition that passes through generations.
That is true, however the internet age does give the option of observing how cultures have much in common. In these respects, there are certain cultural universals.

In fact, I wish that we *did* have traditions that were more stable and based upon our upbringing, especially morals and etiquette.

Yeah I know, I feel the same. Tradition give order and identity while simultaneously enabling us to transcend time by having events (through ritual) continually manifesting through a process of remembrance and actualization.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Viveka » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:39 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:07 am
Viveka wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:22 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
That is the point, is time and money more important than children? Would I, or you, exist if money and time where placed at a higher value than our lives. In a seperate respect, each child is a potential resource of further time and money. Children, grow up and work, in turn they extend generations across the gap of time, while simultaneously manifesting an inherent income.

Time and money is strictly an extension of people, as people observe time and money. Without people, time and money are without value as no form of consciousness would be able to give "meaning" to them.
This thread is about feminism is it not?
It is about healing the divide between the sexes, unity is not troubled by lack of equality.
Equality is unity in a sense. Especially when it comes to rights and privileges.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
Last time I checked, Norway along with many western countries that emphasizing feminism, where being overrun by non-feminists. The political structure of feminist states causes a void in population that is conducive to immigration. In these respects it is self-defeating.


I don't know enough about the immigration problem nor that their culture of feminism is being usurped by non-feminists.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
In a seperate respect the majority of work in feminist based countries, emphasizes the entertainment industry and industries disposed to producing leasure products. The problem occurs that many of these industrial products cause a drain on the natural resources leading to wars and conflicts in 3rd world countries, which in turn causes immigration.

If a family places importance on making financial wealth, more than what is needed, over having children does this place an emphasis on the importance of money over people?[/color]
In reality we see in Norway that men tend towards manly jobs and women towards more social and womanly jobs.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
If being at home is "oppressing", what differs from that form of oppression and doing hard labor, military service, etc.? Is sitting at a desk all day updating financial records less oppressive?

In regards to the unintended pregnancy, what is sex for but procreation? I understand people "mess up" and life can get in the way, but institutionalizing a moral system where certain aspect of the human condition are placed on a pedestal and taking out of context cause many unintended psychological problems.


I don't see any 'unintended psychological problems' stemming from feminism.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
Can a woman be scarred emotionally from too much sex with too many men? If a woman, has sex without being open to the possibility of having children, how does that not objectify her as a simple sex object? Is she objectifying herself?[/color]
She can objectify herself all she wants as long as it's empowering for her. Women are considered 'sluts' when they have too much sex, but a man is a manly man when he has sex too much.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
That is true, however the internet age does give the option of observing how cultures have much in common. In these respects, there are certain cultural universals.
Yes, we can observe the human condition through throwing away the outliers and observing commonalities. I sincerely believe that most humans, out of all the things we live for, one of the most important is to live for happiness and that is one of our instincts to do so. This is shown through all cultures.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
Yeah I know, I feel the same. Tradition give order and identity while simultaneously enabling us to transcend time by having events (through ritual) continually manifesting through a process of remembrance and actualization.
Agreed.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Impenitent » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:12 pm

penicillin

-Imp

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:42 pm

Viveka wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:39 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:07 am
Viveka wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:22 am


This thread is about feminism is it not?
It is about healing the divide between the sexes, unity is not troubled by lack of equality.
Equality is unity in a sense. Especially when it comes to rights and privileges.

The pursuit of equality, inherently leads to a form of seperation, regardless of whether their is equality or not. This considering when one party, either men or women, claims to recieve unequal treatment by default a struggle ensues. the pursuit of equality is warfare, as equality implies some form of seperation entailed. If I argue "A = A" that is different than saying "A". "A = A" form a seperation of A while A maintains itself as A.

Feminism is about a continual progression towards equality, however the standards as to what this "equality" is ever changes. If a feminist movement achieves "x" equality, they will pursue "y". When they will achieve "y" they will blame others for percieved "past mistakes" and pursue what they consider further equality. The equality is in an ever changing state of flux, and in its own terms is conducive to a form of perpetual warfare.

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
Last time I checked, Norway along with many western countries that emphasizing feminism, where being overrun by non-feminists. The political structure of feminist states causes a void in population that is conducive to immigration. In these respects it is self-defeating.


I don't know enough about the immigration problem nor that their culture of feminism is being usurped by non-feminists.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=shariah+l ... B8BE974053

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
In a seperate respect the majority of work in feminist based countries, emphasizes the entertainment industry and industries disposed to producing leasure products. The problem occurs that many of these industrial products cause a drain on the natural resources leading to wars and conflicts in 3rd world countries, which in turn causes immigration.

If a family places importance on making financial wealth, more than what is needed, over having children does this place an emphasis on the importance of money over people?[/color]
In reality we see in Norway that men tend towards manly jobs and women towards more social and womanly jobs.

How is that equal according to the current standards of feminism? At any rate the point italicized above observes that most feminist countries, as first world countries, emphasize a predisposition towards technology, and industries based around social media. We observe this currently in the U.S. at it trends more towards a form of feminism, with the basis of these technologies being a form of "entertainment" further centered upon women as a social demographic.

In a seperate respect many of these technologies require medial factor work centered on the exploitation of women such as in China:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globaliza ... n_in_China
"Most of these factory workers are young girls who send their income to their families."

We will eventually see this form of institutionalized sexism morph its way further west.

Even within standard blue collar laboring/carpentry/ironwork the majority of jobs emphasize a building of structure structured towards this goal.

In regards to norways success, it might not be so much about feminism but geographic positioning. Norways industry of fishing, oil, etc. gives the argument, that even in "feminist" countries, their are certain boundaries of work which men and women are more evolved and predisposed towards, with the root form of economic progress being fundamentally in manly industries.



Its "success" affords feminism to be allowed as the majority of these countries had financial wealth to begin with, and success was not specifically a biproduct of feminism. Even Norway's success, still is centered on a political system more geared towards men:

http://sciencenordic.com/feminism-trend ... n-politics

So Norway's prior economic and political success cannot be blamed on feminism, but rather allowing for it.

.



Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
If being at home is "oppressing", what differs from that form of oppression and doing hard labor, military service, etc.? Is sitting at a desk all day updating financial records less oppressive?

In regards to the unintended pregnancy, what is sex for but procreation? I understand people "mess up" and life can get in the way, but institutionalizing a moral system where certain aspect of the human condition are placed on a pedestal and taking out of context cause many unintended psychological problems.


I don't see any 'unintended psychological problems' stemming from feminism.




https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 093753.htm
"Norwegian researchers measured the stress hormone cortisol in 112 toddlers from 85 different childcare centres in six municipalities, approximately five months after they started attending. Children with the longest childcare days (8-9 hours) showed increases in cortisol during the day."



Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am

Can a woman be scarred emotionally from too much sex with too many men? If a woman, has sex without being open to the possibility of having children, how does that not objectify her as a simple sex object? Is she objectifying herself?
She can objectify herself all she wants as long as it's empowering for her. Women are considered 'sluts' when they have too much sex, but a man is a manly man when he has sex too much.

Last time I checked the majority of women being called sluts, was by other women. Many call themselves sluts and are proud of it. If sex is "empowering" for a women, does that equate sex to a social or pseudo-legal contract? If that is the case it appears sex is merely a weapon yielded by women as an act of aggression against men, due to previously percieved "wrongs".

If a women is angry because she is used for sex, how does letting further men use her for sex empower her? If a women seeks to objectify herself as a form of empowerment, how can she claim mistreatment for being objectified?

If anything feminism is strictly a projection of "guilt" or "worthlessness".

In a seperate respect, a man who has a family and cheats on his wife is still considered an adulterer in a court of law and this gives the woman legal right to divorce him.

If a man has "too much sex" in many respects he is valued more by women, as more "women" obviously want him. Women are attracted to sexually promiscious men and encourage this behavior. We can observe this in cultures rooted in single parenthood, where a man raised by a woman is more likely to be sexually promiscious.

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
That is true, however the internet age does give the option of observing how cultures have much in common. In these respects, there are certain cultural universals.
Yes, we can observe the human condition through throwing away the outliers and observing commonalities. I sincerely believe that most humans, out of all the things we live for, one of the most important is to live for happiness and that is one of our instincts to do so. This is shown through all cultures.

If people were happy they would not be struggling for equal rights, whether the unequality is perceived or actual is irrelevant.

"It seems to me that, in every culture, I come across a chapter headed 'Wisdom.' And then I know exactly what is going to follow: 'Vanity of vanities, all is vanity." (wittgenstein) Was we understand as a cultural universal is this struggle for equality, in these respects it may be implied that the pursuit of equality is the pursuit of vanity, as equality is merely appearance and nothing more.

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:46 am
Yeah I know, I feel the same. Tradition give order and identity while simultaneously enabling us to transcend time by having events (through ritual) continually manifesting through a process of remembrance and actualization.
Agreed.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by thedoc » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:42 pm

The division is between the extremes, the majority have no problem, let the extremes work out their own problems. BTW there is no healing as long as the extremes hold to their extreme positions.

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:39 am

thedoc wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:42 pm
The division is between the extremes, the majority have no problem, let the extremes work out their own problems. BTW there is no healing as long as the extremes hold to their extreme positions.
And what are the extremes? Are the medians (majority) not a result of the polarity between the extremes?

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Re: What Will Heal the Division between the Sexes?

Post by thedoc » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:51 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:39 am
thedoc wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:42 pm
The division is between the extremes, the majority have no problem, let the extremes work out their own problems. BTW there is no healing as long as the extremes hold to their extreme positions.
And what are the extremes? Are the medians (majority) not a result of the polarity between the extremes?
No.

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