Friends of Dorothy

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Friends of Dorothy

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:01 am

I had a now deceased friend who wrote book on the wizard of oz, built a fantasy world based around it in second life (Elizabeth Speiler, think a few videos are floating around on the net, all that remains), and so was a bit surprised when I saw this just now:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vOn9grCVO7c

I thought I knew the book. Saw the display in the Library of Congress even. Apparently, it was heavily used by the gay community decades ago to signal to one another that they were gay, cause gaydar apparently didn't exist yet, still being a fresh WW2 technology.

All three characters, Strawman, Scarecrow, and Lion are described in the video as gay. The professor being behind the curtain I'm guessing is the source for coming out of the closest, seems obvious.

How deep did these connections go? Is there a whole gay story to the tornado, and landing on the wicked witch? What about all those midgets? Bunch of gay midgets? The lollipop gang probably was gay, but not all of the midgets were in it. Seriously, lots and lots of midgets.

And the ending, when Dorothy clicks her heels to go home, and just be normal again, did they ever try to explain this as a desire just to be seen as not gay, pretending the homosexuality was just all a dream?

Did the army of the flying monkeys substitute for straight people?


Edit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ_YFwrmrkI

That's a guide to her old Wizard of Oz world, she got her text accepted as a textbook in several universities apparently. It was via her I got introduced to the first Advaitian Non-Duality groups on Second Life as well, why I tend to know so much about it, and know the top leaders of that philosophy/religion in the English speaking West (many big names hosted meetings) though it was very, very small when it first started, then grew big. I never bought into it, preferring Duality, but get very annoyed when people get confused and talk about the lesser backwards versions like Cartesian Dualism or Leibniz' Monism. Incredibly weak and short sighted version over the Indian Advaita Dvaitian split, which is more philosophically correct and pure, closer in many ways to the old Greek approach than the modern Frankensteins people talk about on philosophy forums. Pet peeve of mine, but it gained it from that period, through the friends of Elizabeth. She was obsessed with the philosophy behind Oz. I never could get that into it, but this Friends of Dorothy angle has me intrigued, know she would like it as a debate subject.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Friends of Dorothy

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:11 am

EchoesOfTheHorizon wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:01 am
I had a now deceased friend who wrote book on the wizard of oz, built a fantasy world based around it in second life (Elizabeth Speiler, think a few videos are floating around on the net, all that remains), and so was a bit surprised when I saw this just now:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vOn9grCVO7c

I thought I knew the book. Saw the display in the Library of Congress even. Apparently, it was heavily used by the gay community decades ago to signal to one another that they were gay, cause gaydar apparently didn't exist yet, still being a fresh WW2 technology.

All three characters, Strawman, Scarecrow, and Lion are described in the video as gay. The professor being behind the curtain I'm guessing is the source for coming out of the closest, seems obvious.

How deep did these connections go? Is there a whole gay story to the tornado, and landing on the wicked witch? What about all those midgets? Bunch of gay midgets? The lollipop gang probably was gay, but not all of the midgets were in it. Seriously, lots and lots of midgets.

And the ending, when Dorothy clicks her heels to go home, and just be normal again, did they ever try to explain this as a desire just to be seen as not gay, pretending the homosexuality was just all a dream?

Did the army of the flying monkeys substitute for straight people?


Edit:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ_YFwrmrkI

That's a guide to her old Wizard of Oz world, she got her text accepted as a textbook in several universities apparently. It was via her I got introduced to the first Advaitian Non-Duality groups on Second Life as well, why I tend to know so much about it, and know the top leaders of that philosophy/religion in the English speaking West (many big names hosted meetings) though it was very, very small when it first started, then grew big. I never bought into it, preferring Duality, but get very annoyed when people get confused and talk about the lesser backwards versions like Cartesian Dualism or Leibniz' Monism. Incredibly weak and short sighted version over the Indian Advaita Dvaitian split, which is more philosophically correct and pure, closer in many ways to the old Greek approach than the modern Frankensteins people talk about on philosophy forums. Pet peeve of mine, but it gained it from that period, through the friends of Elizabeth. She was obsessed with the philosophy behind Oz. I never could get that into it, but this Friends of Dorothy angle has me intrigued, know she would like it as a debate subject.
What are you talking about?

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Friends of Dorothy

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:43 am

Nothing you'll ever understand, you are on the wrong website, this is special 4 U:
http://www.nickjr.com/teletubbies/

If you ever read my post above and watch the video listed, you would be able to grasp the thread, and the questions I ask. Since you cannot, you can't understand why I post words next to text, as that involves reading and comprehension, something you are unwilling to invest in on this site from what I've seen in general.

Watch the video, read the text, then type something relevant. I'm aiming this at the gay members of this site, who might know more about this topic of gay history, who used a text that has been used as well as a guide to psychological typology. I'm honestly surprised it can go multiple directions, and want to know how complex this storyline goes. It belongs in this section, and on this site. My old friend was a pioneer in this area (but not the gay side) a few years back. Made her small mark on philosophy though this book. I have a sincere interest to know this angle, as we had a lot of fun running Advaitians through paradox discussions far, far more complex than any Solipsism discussion here, her grasp of psychology came from this book pretty much. Was very impressed with her at times. She died a while back, while I was in San Francisco or Hawaii.

So it is a real topic, not something for British flippancy to stare up at the wall and cry "I don't understand", just takes effort, thinking. That's it. Admittedly, not a trait of most English people, but if you try, just try, maybe you can surprise everyone and pull it off here. Probably not, more likely just going to screech like a flying monkey and say something incoherent again, flying around aimless like usual. That is philosophy as far as you seem to know it, dead end after dead end interaction with you. :roll:

Anyone taking this seriously, I'm interested in knowing more. Serious people, not fake people. Seems to be a rather well thought out metaphoric reading of the text involving sexuality. It obviously could be stretched farther than I am imagining it.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Friends of Dorothy

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:01 am

Right. Must be too deep for me.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Friends of Dorothy

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:13 am

Thanks.

Moving back to the subject, what would the Yellow Brick Road represent? The coming out process?

The Horse of Many Colors seems obviously gay, not seeing a point to read into that pass that.

Was the travel from the countryside to the city something many gay guys identified with, looking for a way to find their way home, in a place exactly opposite of home? Like a subcultural hub like many cities now have?

Was Dorothy the gay person personified, like a Super Ego of sorts? What role did the little dog play?

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Friends of Dorothy

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:21 am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=712GnEJHn_Y

I used to work with a couple of gay guys, one was into the symbolism behind David Bowie's song "A Secret Life of Arabia", it involved all sorts of things, including alchemical signs he made, but it mostly looked like a trail of chaos to me, but was amazed people sat around trying to explain these things. Was a cryptological meaning well beyond what I could pick up. I generally respect David Bowie, but don't always get what is going on, much less his impulses. Find it interesting however the impulse of the gay community to build a understanding of itself through such hidden understandings in plain sight.

I liked the song before, but now it just confuses me, as I'm uncertain exactly what it means more indepth, to me was just about women covering themselves up, being different underneath, from what they appear. I don't think straight guys do this much. Can't think of a example, other than a few naughty limericks, which are rather uncomplicated and short.

Londoner
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Re: Friends of Dorothy

Post by Londoner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:54 pm

This seems I rather strange exercise. We know it was not the intention of either the film or the book to be interpreted that way. That obviously doesn't stop people putting their own interpretations on it, but in that case it doesn't make sense to ask what the various elements 'represent', since the answer would be 'anything you want'.

EchoesOfTheHorizon
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Re: Friends of Dorothy

Post by EchoesOfTheHorizon » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 am

Not anything I want, but how they saw it. They built a interpretive esoteric world out of it, through a kind of "Literary Pareidolia". It is obvious it was a topic they greatly talked about. So one can look at further characters and events, and ask what the new take was for it.

The text itself is very important to the US, congress bought the rights to it. I didn't expect this, went much farther than I expected in a subculture, as far as influential penetration goes. Outside the red slippers, nothing seems to stand out as attractive or meaningful to gay guys from a straight man's perspective, hence why I guess they adopted it, knowing we wouldn't easily make the connections of plot to the nuances of their lifestyle.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

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