Womyn and Philosophy

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:33 pm

HexHammer wrote:
Londoner wrote:Did you understand the question?
Aah, you have some intellect after all. Good!

I indirectly did. It's strategically thinking, holistically, abstract, critical. Having killer instinct, daring, etc.

You are glaringly ignorant and wants to be spoon fed every little single thing, you should start reading up on scientific things from the source, instead of getting everything served in a half baked way, here on the forum, why I will put you on ignore since you are just a leach.
:lol: :lol:
Obviously this Hex boy has not met many women.

HexHammer
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by HexHammer » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:57 pm

Londoner wrote:I asked what you meant by your references to 'logic'. I think you will find that those qualities are not what are normally described by the word 'logic'.

But then, women tend to have better language skills than men.
That is true enough that logic isn't described that way in the dictionary, but to make a logical conclusion, you need those skills.

HexHammer
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by HexHammer » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:57 pm

Hobbes' Choice wrote: :lol: :lol:
Obviously this Hex boy has not met many women.
..says the one that have only met men!

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Greta
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Greta » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:15 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:I'm thinking of selling my vintage Slingerland. Are you interested? :lol:
No thanks, Hobbes, I love my kit. Why are you selling the drums? About 20 years ago I sold a set of vintage Rogers. I hadn't touched them for maybe eight years. Needless to say, just six months after I sold them I was dragged into a band by friends. Sold them for very little at a garage sale too. Certainly in that case a woman was proven to be dumb :lol:

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:30 pm

Greta wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:I'm thinking of selling my vintage Slingerland. Are you interested? :lol:
No thanks, Hobbes, I love my kit. Why are you selling the drums? About 20 years ago I sold a set of vintage Rogers. I hadn't touched them for maybe eight years. Needless to say, just six months after I sold them I was dragged into a band by friends. Sold them for very little at a garage sale too. Certainly in that case a woman was proven to be dumb :lol:

I bought them when I was actively playing and had a remote house to play them to my heart's content. When I moved they got packed up never to see the light of day; being replaced with an electronic kit that I could turn down the volume on.
I even have a soundproof garage which I made about 11 years ago, but after getting tonsil cancer, my neck muscles are not what they used to be on account of the radiation and tend to seize up.
My garage is not thrown over to sculpture, and the soundproofing makes for great heat insulation so I can work in the middle of winter.

So short story - I don't play anymore.

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Gustav Bjornstrand
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Gustav Bjornstrand » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:23 pm

Londoner wrote:As to women being superior once they have had their education, it isn't necessary to prove they are generally superior. If the contention is that women are condemned by their sex to inferiority, then that status would remain a constant. But what we have observed is that there are more women in business, in politics, in academia, in the arts and so on. That there can be change is enough in itself to show that sex cannot be the determining factor.
I find there is a certain amount of open ambiguity in this statement. I can share one perspective and from a position within South American culture (Colombia but Latin American generally). There are many more women who are studying at university, and many more openings to women for employment, as a result of shifts of attitude and policy. And for this reason there are 'more women in business, in politics, in academia, in the arts and so on'.

There is no particular statement made by the facts of this matter except that, given the opportunity, women can attend university. It is also quite reasonable to say that women can do most of the things --- and as it is asserted,, though contended --- all the things, that men do.

The contention about woman's inferiority is based in many assertions. It is not easy to get all of them out in the open. And when they are out in the open it tends just to open thing up even more to extreme contention. But it certainly stands to reason, and is proven in our present, that women can study philosophy.

But I would suggest that up to now the real question has little to do with any of this. The real question is something very different. But even to state that question --- to get to it --- is not that easy. Yet everything hinges on the question.

That question is: Can a woman or can women do what men have done in philosophy? This is a dual question. Will a woman *exceed* a man in developing a philosophical system the same, or comparable, or better, than men? Or, will a woman or women philosophers as a school develop a woman-based philosophy? That is, a philosophy founded in some other method or approach or general state of being?

That question asks other questions: Is there some special 'woman's way of thinking' that is different, even minimally, from that of a man or men? Or, is 'philosophy' as we understand it, in some way or other, a uniquely masculine affair and even *domain*? In fact, these questions open up into many many different questions which are, moreover, attempts to define a platform that has to do with human ideation.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:56 pm

Gustav Bjornstrand wrote:...
That question is: Can a woman or can women do what men have done in philosophy? This is a dual question. Will a woman *exceed* a man in developing a philosophical system the same, or comparable, or better, than men? ...
Already been done I thought? Like it or loathe it I give you Ayn Rand's Objectivism.

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Greta
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Greta » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:04 am

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greta wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:I'm thinking of selling my vintage Slingerland. Are you interested? :lol:
No thanks, Hobbes, I love my kit. Why are you selling the drums? About 20 years ago I sold a set of vintage Rogers. I hadn't touched them for maybe eight years. Needless to say, just six months after I sold them I was dragged into a band by friends. Sold them for very little at a garage sale too. Certainly in that case a woman was proven to be dumb :lol:
I bought them when I was actively playing and had a remote house to play them to my heart's content. When I moved they got packed up never to see the light of day; being replaced with an electronic kit that I could turn down the volume on.
I even have a soundproof garage which I made about 11 years ago, but after getting tonsil cancer, my neck muscles are not what they used to be on account of the radiation and tend to seize up.
My garage is not thrown over to sculpture, and the soundproofing makes for great heat insulation so I can work in the middle of winter.

So short story - I don't play anymore.
A freestanding house is a drummer's best friend. I tried e-kits too but they didn't seem to give me the kind of visceral experiences that I enjoy with acoustic drums.

When I stopped playing I got into design, digital art and cartooning. Then the music came back and everything else has gone on ice. The good thing about drumming is that, even if you don't have a kit and you feel the urge to play, you can at least tap on a table - or anything :)

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TSBU
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by TSBU » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Greta wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greta wrote:
No thanks, Hobbes, I love my kit. Why are you selling the drums? About 20 years ago I sold a set of vintage Rogers. I hadn't touched them for maybe eight years. Needless to say, just six months after I sold them I was dragged into a band by friends. Sold them for very little at a garage sale too. Certainly in that case a woman was proven to be dumb :lol:
I bought them when I was actively playing and had a remote house to play them to my heart's content. When I moved they got packed up never to see the light of day; being replaced with an electronic kit that I could turn down the volume on.
I even have a soundproof garage which I made about 11 years ago, but after getting tonsil cancer, my neck muscles are not what they used to be on account of the radiation and tend to seize up.
My garage is not thrown over to sculpture, and the soundproofing makes for great heat insulation so I can work in the middle of winter.

So short story - I don't play anymore.
A freestanding house is a drummer's best friend. I tried e-kits too but they didn't seem to give me the kind of visceral experiences that I enjoy with acoustic drums.

When I stopped playing I got into design, digital art and cartooning. Then the music came back and everything else has gone on ice. The good thing about drumming is that, even if you don't have a kit and you feel the urge to play, you can at least tap on a table - or anything :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqJdzYY_Fas

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:57 pm

Greta wrote:
Hobbes' Choice wrote:
Greta wrote:
No thanks, Hobbes, I love my kit. Why are you selling the drums? About 20 years ago I sold a set of vintage Rogers. I hadn't touched them for maybe eight years. Needless to say, just six months after I sold them I was dragged into a band by friends. Sold them for very little at a garage sale too. Certainly in that case a woman was proven to be dumb :lol:
I bought them when I was actively playing and had a remote house to play them to my heart's content. When I moved they got packed up never to see the light of day; being replaced with an electronic kit that I could turn down the volume on.
I even have a soundproof garage which I made about 11 years ago, but after getting tonsil cancer, my neck muscles are not what they used to be on account of the radiation and tend to seize up.
My garage is not thrown over to sculpture, and the soundproofing makes for great heat insulation so I can work in the middle of winter.

So short story - I don't play anymore.
A freestanding house is a drummer's best friend. I tried e-kits too but they didn't seem to give me the kind of visceral experiences that I enjoy with acoustic drums.

When I stopped playing I got into design, digital art and cartooning. Then the music came back and everything else has gone on ice. The good thing about drumming is that, even if you don't have a kit and you feel the urge to play, you can at least tap on a table - or anything :)
I looked at Yamaha's, but decided to splash out on a Roland V-Drum kit. The drums have mesh skins rather than solid rubber, and they had good sensors that gave back a range of loudness.

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Greta
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Greta » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:56 am

TSBU wrote:
The good thing about drumming is that, even if you don't have a kit and you feel the urge to play, you can at least tap on a table - or anything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqJdzYY_Fas
Ah yes, street drummer. Cool skills but they really do make a racket :)
Hobbes' Choice wrote:I looked at Yamaha's, but decided to splash out on a Roland V-Drum kit. The drums have mesh skins rather than solid rubber, and they had good sensors that gave back a range of loudness.
I love the feel of the mesh heads on the Rolands, especially on the kick drum and the sensitivity of the snare drum and its rimshots.

Roland apparently sells more drums than any other manufacturer, acoustic or electric, and no doubt they'll continue to do well as growing populations force people to live in ever closer quarters. Still, even e-kit players suffer complaints from neighbours, usually due to the vibration of the bass drum. I've seen guys on drums sites showing their ingenious home made solutions, seemingly usually involving two boards and lots of tennis balls acting as shock absorbers in between :)

v83
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by v83 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:43 am

Melchior wrote: 2) Philosophy requires intellectual prowess, which men possess to a greater degree than women.
As a woman, can I just say - wow. Reading this thread, I actually thought I'd been transported back to the 1950s. It's the sexist attitudes on here and the fact that the discipline is an "old boys' club" that are responsible for the lack of women in philosophy (not to mention men and women of colour).

Melchior - to cite your "evidence" that us women are less intelligent: IQ tests are zero proof that "men are more intelligent" - indeed I don't believe any test is conclusive proof of intelligence, especially when the questions are devised by white men (the fact that non-white ethnicities also do worse on these tests speaks volumes - unless you're claiming that not merely men, but Caucasian men are the most intelligent of all). There are so many other factors at play, such as confidence, emotional state, previous test experience and social conditioning. I don't think there will ever be a conclusive, objective way to test intelligence levels.

But assuming the above is wrong, and for the sake of argument lets accept that when it comes to the "intelligence race" men do in fact, "win by a margin". That doesn't mean that there aren't intelligent, capable women philosophers out there, that could bring a lot to the philosophical community - philosophers like Simone de Beauvoir and Elizabeth Anscombe are proof of that. Furthermore I'm sure the vast majority of men who study or take an interest in philosophy aren't in the top tier of the most intelligent people in the world (just reading the comments in these forums puts paid to that). So intelligent in fact, that their "less intelligent" female counterparts just can't "keep up", which is what Melchior seems to be implying. I doubt philosophy is more intellectually rigorous than other disciplines where the gender balance is more equal.

It's really disappointing to see these archaic, sexist attitudes still prevail in this day and age. But sadly this is the case in male-dominated disciplines, the prevailing belief that "women are lesser", as opposed to the fact that the discipline is discriminatory and hostile towards them. This is the reason why there are less female philosophers. It's really that simple.

v83
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by v83 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:56 am

I'm assuming the sexist dinosaurs on here won't agree with me, but to any women reading this - don't let these Victorian attitudes discourage you from your philosophical endeavours! If in doubt, John Stuart Mill's The Subjection of Women will assuage any doubts of your capabilities and intellectual value.

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Hobbes' Choice
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by Hobbes' Choice » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:54 pm

Melchior wrote: 2) Philosophy requires intellectual prowess, which men possess to a greater degree than women.
[/quote]

The evidence from this Forum alone is enough to dismiss this idiotic statement.

marjoram_blues
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Re: Womyn and Philosophy

Post by marjoram_blues » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:39 pm

iMod wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:06 pm
Throng wrote:I need to clarify a personal boundary issue. Denigrating, insulting and/or abusive aspersions aren't acceptable to me, and because I personally can do nothing to influence consideration and respect with regards to other people, in order to maintain this personal boundary I will refer future derogation to the Administration.
Throng, you are welcome to refer any posts you think may go too far to the moderators. The simplest and most effective way is to use the "report post" facility, by clicking on the "!" button you can find at the top right of the post.

This board is more lightly moderated than most philosophy forums, for practical reasons and also reasons of principle. Rick Lewis does not impose his own view either of what philosophising should look like or of what is and is not acceptable behaviour. It is within the power of each member to decide for themselves who here is worth engaging and who is best avoided. Accordingly, Rick's team of moderators is kept small; too small even for the task of reading everything, let alone policing everything, that is posted.

It would be a mistake to assume (as I think some do) that just because someone has been here a long time and insults other users with seeming impunity, they enjoy the moderators' affection or approval, or any kind of respect or privilege.

There are many regular posters here that Rick and his team consider to be, at best, poor thinkers and poor communicators on whom little time should be wasted. But we prefer to leave it to each individual to decide who those members are, and how best to treat them. It's part of a philosopher's skill-set, worth developing and demonstrating with pride.

Regards
iMod
The above is a good summary of the philosophy behind the Philosophy Now forum.

I understand that it is 'part of a philosopher's skill set' to decide how much time should be given to posters who are 'poor thinkers and communicators'. It is not so much that that is the problem here.
Many who disrupt discussions with their own agenda communicate their thoughts very well.

I doubt that anyone assumes that any insulting long-term contributors enjoy moderators' 'affection or approval, or any kind of respect or privilege'.
However, there is quite rightly a respect for freedom; Rick has made clear that mostly anything goes on this forum.

Even if the presence of obsessive, manipulative, demeaning characters whose delusions mean that they are not amenable to reasoned argument results in a loss of decent posters who have a real interest in philosophy, and those who would be. That loss of quality and potential is apparently acceptable.

Freedom is valuable but not if abused.
The fact that you need to keep pointing out how to deal with 'posts that go too far' shows that it should be made clearer and more prominent so that people understand what has to be done to draw the mods attention to any persistent offender.
The final decision is made by the mods, and must be accepted - even if it is wrong.

Yes, it is understandable that the mods have limited time to read and police.
What about the valuable time and energy committed to having a serious discussion, and time and energy involved in learning, starting and maintaining a thread.
It is seriously offputting and dispiriting when a civil and engaging exploration involves dealing with, and reporting a clear and continual offender. To no avail.
Even if it could be rationalized as ' developing and demonstrating [ a philosophical skill set] with pride'.
It doesn't seem to concern Rick and team that many worthwhile, quality posters leave.
Or that the sometimes toxic atmosphere kills any desire to engage in philosophical discussion stone dead.
And so it goes...

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