Since Women Were "Liberated"

Anything to do with gender and the status of women and men.

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Belinda
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:51 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:41 pm God knows all about everyone's motivations. You cannot fool God. It's best not to fool yourself by inventing excuses why you failed.
But these aren't necessarily "invented excuses." The motives involved might indeed have been entirely pure, but the actions wicked.

Plenty of people set out with good intentions and end up....remind me again, where does that "road" lead? :wink:
You and I might be as wicked as anyone had we not been tutored in the civilising influences of one of the main post -axial moral codes. However obedience to a set of morals and a sacred icon is insufficient. Also necessary for adequate civilised morality is reason and self understanding. Self -understanding allows us to be reasonable regarding our own motivations. Without insight into one's own motivations one is bound to be less than reasonable.

Thus there are men who lack human kindness but have insight, and there are men who have have human kindness but lack insight. Both have a higher chance of failure to measure up to the spirit of a post-axial religion than does the man who has both insight and human kindness.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:33 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:51 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:41 pm God knows all about everyone's motivations. You cannot fool God. It's best not to fool yourself by inventing excuses why you failed.
But these aren't necessarily "invented excuses." The motives involved might indeed have been entirely pure, but the actions wicked.

Plenty of people set out with good intentions and end up....remind me again, where does that "road" lead? :wink:
You and I might be as wicked as anyone had we not been tutored in the civilising influences of one of the main post -axial moral codes.
Knowing the law does not make a murderer not-a-murderer, or a libelous person not-libelous.

It is not those who merely know what the law is who are innocent of violating it, but those who keep the law.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Belinda wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:33 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:51 pm
Belinda wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:41 pm God knows all about everyone's motivations. You cannot fool God. It's best not to fool yourself by inventing excuses why you failed.
But these aren't necessarily "invented excuses." The motives involved might indeed have been entirely pure, but the actions wicked.

Plenty of people set out with good intentions and end up....remind me again, where does that "road" lead? :wink:
You and I might be as wicked as anyone had we not been tutored in the civilising influences of one of the main post -axial moral codes. However obedience to a set of morals and a sacred icon is insufficient. Also necessary for adequate civilised morality is reason and self understanding. Self -understanding allows us to be reasonable regarding our own motivations. Without insight into one's own motivations one is bound to be less than reasonable.

Thus there are men who lack human kindness but have insight, and there are men who have have human kindness but lack insight. Both have a higher chance of failure to measure up to the spirit of a post-axial religion than does the man who has both insight and human kindness.
That's hilarious. Humanity only BEGAN to resemble something with empathy and compassion when it began to LOSE the stifling influence of kristian morality and started to favour science instead. We still have a long way to go. There are still plenty of hypocritical ICs around.
Belinda
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Belinda »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:31 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:33 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:51 pm
But these aren't necessarily "invented excuses." The motives involved might indeed have been entirely pure, but the actions wicked.

Plenty of people set out with good intentions and end up....remind me again, where does that "road" lead? :wink:
You and I might be as wicked as anyone had we not been tutored in the civilising influences of one of the main post -axial moral codes. However obedience to a set of morals and a sacred icon is insufficient. Also necessary for adequate civilised morality is reason and self understanding. Self -understanding allows us to be reasonable regarding our own motivations. Without insight into one's own motivations one is bound to be less than reasonable.

Thus there are men who lack human kindness but have insight, and there are men who have have human kindness but lack insight. Both have a higher chance of failure to measure up to the spirit of a post-axial religion than does the man who has both insight and human kindness.
That's hilarious. Humanity only BEGAN to resemble something with empathy and compassion when it began to LOSE the stifling influence of kristian morality and started to favour science instead. We still have a long way to go. There are still plenty of hypocritical ICs around.
Christianity was the only code of empathy and compassion in Europe for 14 centuries
Belinda
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Belinda »

Immanuel Can wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:51 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:33 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:51 pm
But these aren't necessarily "invented excuses." The motives involved might indeed have been entirely pure, but the actions wicked.

Plenty of people set out with good intentions and end up....remind me again, where does that "road" lead? :wink:
You and I might be as wicked as anyone had we not been tutored in the civilising influences of one of the main post -axial moral codes.
Knowing the law does not make a murderer not-a-murderer, or a libelous person not-libelous.

It is not those who merely know what the law is who are innocent of violating it, but those who keep the law.
Culture is not simply knowing -that. Culture is experiencing in a special way. In the case of Christianity, the moral code is built into other aspects of the Christian culture such as church attendance and conformity to local manners, respect for authority, family relationships, and work.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:37 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:31 pm
Belinda wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:33 am
You and I might be as wicked as anyone had we not been tutored in the civilising influences of one of the main post -axial moral codes. However obedience to a set of morals and a sacred icon is insufficient. Also necessary for adequate civilised morality is reason and self understanding. Self -understanding allows us to be reasonable regarding our own motivations. Without insight into one's own motivations one is bound to be less than reasonable.

Thus there are men who lack human kindness but have insight, and there are men who have have human kindness but lack insight. Both have a higher chance of failure to measure up to the spirit of a post-axial religion than does the man who has both insight and human kindness.
That's hilarious. Humanity only BEGAN to resemble something with empathy and compassion when it began to LOSE the stifling influence of kristian morality and started to favour science instead. We still have a long way to go. There are still plenty of hypocritical ICs around.
Christianity was the only code of empathy and compassion in Europe for 14 centuries
And how did this 'christian empathy and compassion' manifest itself?
Belinda
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Belinda »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:20 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:37 am
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:31 pm

That's hilarious. Humanity only BEGAN to resemble something with empathy and compassion when it began to LOSE the stifling influence of kristian morality and started to favour science instead. We still have a long way to go. There are still plenty of hypocritical ICs around.
Christianity was the only code of empathy and compassion in Europe for 14 centuries
And how did this 'christian empathy and compassion' manifest itself?
I know. It was a smelly rusty old lorry but it had some good stuff in its cargo.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:43 am Culture is experiencing in a special way. In the case of Christianity,
Christianity isn't a "culture." Christianity is a belief that can be melded to many cultures, but is none of them in particular.
the moral code
The moral code of Christianity is universal, not cultural. It makes claim to have jurisdiction over all cultures and their particular "ethics."

So, for example, spousal abuse is evil in North America and in Saudi Arabia...even if the former disapproves of it and the latter makes it a sacred Koranic right.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:32 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:20 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:37 am
Christianity was the only code of empathy and compassion in Europe for 14 centuries
And how did this 'christian empathy and compassion' manifest itself?
I know. It was a smelly rusty old lorry but it had some good stuff in its cargo.
The ten commandments are ridiculous.
Belinda
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Belinda »

Belinda wrote:
Culture is experiencing in a special way. In the case of Christianity,
Immanuel replied:
Christianity isn't a "culture." Christianity is a belief that can be melded to many cultures, but is none of them in particular.
Christianity is not a culture but has been integral to European culture for nearly two centuries.
I think IC quotes me:
the moral code
IC wrote:
The moral code of Christianity is universal, not cultural. It makes claim to have jurisdiction over all cultures and their particular "ethics."

So, for example, spousal abuse is evil in North America and in Saudi Arabia...even if the former disapproves of it and the latter makes it a sacred Koranic right.
Islam's moral code is similar to Christianity's moral code.They have a common root in the OT.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Immanuel Can »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:18 pm Islam's moral code is similar to Christianity's moral code.
I've read the Koran...have you? I can tell you for sure, it's not the same morality...not anything close, actually. And most of what the Koran mentions from the OT, it simply gets wrong.
Polybius
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Polybius »

simplicity wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:05 pm The bedrock of any society [the nuclear family] has been devastated
I seriously doubt that the nuclear family is the bedrock of any society and even it was, I'd blame an increasingly difficult financial situation for the inevitable demise of the nuclear unit not the liberation of women.
simplicity
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by simplicity »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 7:43 pm The ten commandments are ridiculous.
I guess ideas still considered prescient after five thousand years of consideration are kind of ridiculous. Give it another five thousand and perhaps folks will come around to your view.

I'll give 99.9% of all this woke non-sense about five more years [at most] before even the most dim-witted among us has had enough.
simplicity
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by simplicity »

Polybius wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:55 pm
simplicity wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:05 pm The bedrock of any society [the nuclear family] has been devastated
I seriously doubt that the nuclear family is the bedrock of any society and even it was, I'd blame an increasingly difficult financial situation for the inevitable demise of the nuclear unit not the liberation of women.
Then what explains the incredible strength of the AA nuclear family up until the liberals in the 60's decided to destroy it with the imposition of their welfare state resulting in the the out of wedlock birth rate skyrocketing from 25% in the 50's to 75% now?

Nobody cares about kids like their parents. And if this is not the case, your society is pretty sick [by definition].
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Sculptor
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Re: Since Women Were "Liberated"

Post by Sculptor »

simplicity wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:33 pm
Polybius wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:55 pm
simplicity wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:05 pm The bedrock of any society [the nuclear family] has been devastated
I seriously doubt that the nuclear family is the bedrock of any society and even it was, I'd blame an increasingly difficult financial situation for the inevitable demise of the nuclear unit not the liberation of women.
Then what explains the incredible strength of the AA nuclear family up until the liberals in the 60's decided to destroy it with the imposition of their welfare state resulting in the the out of wedlock birth rate skyrocketing from 25% in the 50's to 75% now?
There is such a lot wrong with this statement it is hard to know where to start. Let's brake it down.

1) The nuclear family, treated women as chattel slaves with no ability to earn their own livings, get properly educated, or get fulfilment except as breeding stock for children. This was a sick system which ruined the lives of many women and resulted in more battered wives; and unhappy men. Additionally the prevalence of shot-gum marriages was high. Now it is pretty uncool.

2) "The liberals" who ever the fuck they are were never in a position to destroy anything. What destroyed the nuclear family was TRUTH, and the growing aspirations of women who were able to assert their rights as human beings in their demand for equality.

3) The welfare state was a response to this growing awareness and the realisation that the government is suppose to serve the people and not the other way round.

4) Your figures are bollocks and made up o the spot. The current "out of wedlock" birth rate is 40% in the USA. That would be smaller if morons like you did not make it so difficult for young people to get sex education and abortions of needed.
Historically what you like to call "out of wedlock" is the NORM.

Nobody cares about kids like their parents. And if this is not the case, your society is pretty sick [by definition].
Marriage does not guarantee good parenting.
You are sick.
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