Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:32 am
It's poetry to leap from "the properties of this thing are indeterminate" to "the thing doesn't exist". That's a matter of personal interpretation, it's not required by the science. To me, the science suggests the opposite.
It is not poetic but rather a point that warrant the Principle of Charity and reconciliation.
The original context of how the point was raised is critical.
I believe you have not
fully understood the point what Einstein meant when he asked David Mermin with reference to the Moon;
Einstein didn’t like this. He wanted things out there to have properties, whether or not they were measured4:
“We often discussed his notions on objective reality.
I recall that during one walk Einstein suddenly stopped, turned to me and asked whether I really believed that the moon exists only when I look at it.”
1. Einstein's philosophical background [also his psychological state] is critical. Einstein was a typical
physical realist, i.e. he believed things [and its properties] exist independent of the mind [human conditions], i.e. the concept of Objective Reality.
This mean things and their properties exist regardless of whether human 'look' at it or not.
It also mean things had existed before humans and will exist even if humans become extinct, a good example of such a thing is the Moon.
Einstein's 'God do not play dice' was a 'theist' [specifically a deist] who believe God created all things as independent of the human mind.
2. QM basis is Anti-Physical_Realist to 1 above.
"Quantum physics says that the universe is random and that the state of particles, like electrons or protons, can only be predicted using a probability distribution, due to their un-deterministic nature. In other words, we can only predict how particles will behave
once observed, within a given probability."
Link
This mean the final state of the particle is conditioned upon the human conditions [observation, i.e. interaction].
3. You just banked on the term 'properties' which is too narrow. The critical element here is "particle" with its properties and state. Btw, properties include property of existence as well. As above, the final state of the particle is conditioned upon the human conditions [observation, i.e. interaction].
4. Now the Moon [or whatever thing] in its TOTALITY is comprised of particles with its properties which are subject to the QM principles of entanglement, supposition, Wavefunction collapse, particle-wave duality, and others.
Since QM is applicable a particle, it has to be applicable to ALL particles comprising the moon.
Therefore the moon,
from the QM perspective, "do not exists if no humans look at it."
Note 'the moon' Schrodinger's cat, "no sound in the forest if ......" are merely examples and illustrations to highlight counter the narrow minded dogmatic Philosophical Realists' ideology.
What the above culminate to is,
There is no objective reality that is absolute independent of the human conditions [mind] as claimed by Philosophical Realists.
What is reality is somehow entangled with the human conditions.
That's a matter of personal interpretation, it's not required by the science. To me, the science suggests the opposite.
That is too general.
Should be,
QM Science suggests, the moon does not exist if no humans 'look' at it.
Newtonian Science suggests the opposite.
Einsteinian Science suggests the opposite.
Common sense suggests the opposite.
Aside,
what is more interesting is to research on the psychological factors that drive
the narrow minded dogmatic Philosophical Realists' to cling to their ideology.