Regarding fasting...

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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dattaswami
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Regarding fasting...

Post by dattaswami »

FASTING IN RITUALS

[Shri G Lakshman asked about the significance of fasting on the days of rituals and for the sake of God. Shri Swami replied as given below.]

Pravrutti is the subject that is related to the human beings with respect to other living beings in this world. The rules of Pravrutti are called as dharma. The basic rule is that you should not hurt any living being including yourself. As long as this basic rule is not violated, the rules can be changed in any manner you like as per the need. God becomes angry and will grant you the hell provided you violate the basic rule. But, some ignorant people apply this punishment in hell to every change of rule even though the basic rule is not violated.

It is their foolishness and rigidity of ignorance. They quote the rules and insist that such rules must be strictly followed without any violation, even though the violation of such rules does not damage the basic rule. It is the climax of the ignorance that sometimes some foolish rules are insisted in spite of the violation of the basic rule by such rules! Such climax of foolishness is due to lack of knowledge of scriptures and lack of right analysis.

Let Me illustrate this with an example. On the day of the ritual related to the anniversary of the departed parents, the foolish rule is that the doer of the ritual should not drink even water till the priests eat the food. It is said that the departed parents eat food through these priests. It is also said that if the doer does not fast on that day, the departed souls become angry and curse. The doer of the ritual is really tortured because while the priests enjoy the food on one side, on the other side, the doer has to prepare the balls of food (pinda). The doer is burning with hunger and before him, the priests enjoy the food. At the same time, he has to prepare the pinda by mixing the food with ghee and dal resisting himself from eating.

Really, the departed parents are pained since their issue is suffering with hunger and curse the priests for doing such sin in ignorance. The first point is that the departed soul will not eat the food through the priest. By giving food to the deserving priests, a good action (punyam) is done, the fruit of which is protection of the departed souls. But, remember that if the priests are undeserving, the donation of food becomes a sin and the departed souls will undergo more punishments in hell. A departed soul is always in the energetic body and the energetic body takes energy only as food. The departed soul in hell is actually punished with hunger since the supply of energy is stopped. Since energy is nervous energy, the soul will have hunger and thirst (manomayah pranashariraneta… Veda). In the heaven, there is no hunger and thirst due to continuous supply of energy (ubhetirtvaa… Veda). In between heaven and hell, the soul may go to pitruloka and the supply of energy is from moon (nirvishtasaram…).

These three ways are for a non-devoted soul. The fourth path for departed devotee is the abode of God and such ritual is not at all necessary (nahitenapathaa tanutyajah…). Therefore, the departed soul never requires the materialized food. But, giving food to a deserving priest is recommended to help the departed soul. The departed soul is said to enjoy the food through the priest, but this is said to make everybody to perform this good action atleast by fear. Therefore, such a fabricated trick is not applicable to a person, who does the good action even without the necessity of such fear. Such a fabricated trick is meant for a miser, who does not donate food to anybody. Such a trick is also necessary, which is called as arthavada. Therefore, the entire ritual is based on a single point that whether the priest is deserving or non-deserving.

In these days, the deserving priests are almost nil. Assuming that we have achieved the deserving priest, the doer should not fast and become weak. He cannot perform the ritual in the absence of energy in his body. If he suffers with hunger, the departed parents will be pained and will curse the priest. Even the scripture says that the doer of a ritual should take limited food on the day of a ritual. The scripture says that a Brahmin should take milk and other castes can take some solids also, on a ritual day (payo brahamanasyavratam… Veda). You should not fast without food leading to weakness and you should not over eat resulting in sleep. Fasting means taking limited food. Brahmacharya means confining to one wife and does not mean not marrying at all. The Veda and the Gita say that limited food is always good (yuktaahaara…, adyatetticha…). According to the constitution, you can take liquid or solid food in limited quantities on that day. Here, Brahmin means delicate constitution with weak digestion and hence, milk is recommended. Therefore, if you recommend fasting without water, it is against the scripture also. But, these ignorant priests recite only the scripture without knowing its meaning.

When the mother of Shankara died, He became ready to do the rituals. Ignorant priests resisted that and He was not allowed to go to the burial ground because a saint should not perform the rituals. Therefore, He cremated His mother in the backyard of her home. When priests opposed it saying that it is inauspicious, Shankara replied that such rules of ignorant people succeed to exploit the other ignorant people and not to a scholar like Him, who knows the entire truth. Nivrutti is the subject of God and Pravrutti is the subject of this creation. As long as you do not hurt any other living being including yourself, God is not bothered about the rules of Pravrutti. By fasting, you hurt your own soul and the Gita criticizes it (karshayantah…).

Your self is also one of the souls in the universe. According to medical science, on the day of fast, the digestive system starts digesting the remains of excretory matter left over in the rectum, which means that the fasting person eats his own excretion on that day leaving the pure food from outside. This point is stated in a book ‘Vemana Shatakam’, written by the famous saint Yogi Vemana. Fasting can be done for a limited time to solve the problem of indigestion, which is a medical remedy. Hurting yourself in Nivrutti is also foolish like fasting for the sake of God. However, hurting yourself required in the divine service is appreciable, which is a sacrifice. Hanuman wanted to commit suicide, when Sita was not found. The logic given by Him was that on hearing the negative report on Sita, Rama will not be alive. Therefore, hurting the self here has logical requirement. If somebody tries to commit suicide without any such requirement for the sake of God, it is a foolish sin. Fasting can be a natural consequence of absorption in God. It is appreciable because the hunger will not be experienced at all by you. Jesus and Sai Baba fasted for sometime and such fasting was not forcible since they were absorbed in God.

Forcible fasting can be detected by the feeling of hunger. Shankara told a simile supporting His reply. A knife can cut the vegetables but not a stone. The stone is not at all cut and on the other hand the edge of the knife is spoiled (shilaaprayukta kshuraadivat…). The knife is the ignorant rules of the ignorant priests. The vegetables are the general ignorant public. The stone is the scholar knowing the whole truth. If you think that burning a dead body in the backyard of the house is inauspicious, burning the dried grass present in the husk in the backyard of the house is equally inauspicious.

The green grass has life and hence, the dried grass is a dead body. The chemical combination of a human body reveals that it contains some inert elements and inert compounds, which are generally found in the materials of the world. Science is the authority as far as Pravrutti is concerned. Shankara is a true scientist in Pravrutti and hence, burnt the dead body like dried grass in the backyard of the home. Science is not related to God and hence, God is irrelevant to Pravrutti as long as no one hurts some one. The difference between the scientist and Shankara is that the scientist keeps silent about God, whereas the Shankara stressed on the existence of God. Therefore, Nivrutti should not be dragged into Pravrutti as long as the basic principle is not violated.
Walker
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Re: Regarding fasting...

Post by Walker »

dattaswami wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:16 amFasting can be a natural consequence of absorption in God. It is appreciable because the hunger will not be experienced at all by you. Jesus and Sai Baba fasted for sometime and such fasting was not forcible since they were absorbed in God.
This is so true. Thank you for this observation.

I have a noticed this in life. I have noticed that the key element of unforced fasting is the absorption of attention.

When attention is effortless and absorbed, in this way people can experience fasting that is not forcible. Any craftsman/artist absorbed in the moment can attest to hunger and thirst as being mere background noise from time-to-time, rather than something that requires enough of a distracting effort to change.

Focus on the primal, fundamental philosophical question of ... Who Am I, can also absorb attention, and cause involuntary, unforced fasting. Eventually the body and will surrender and the sustained, perpetual, energetic attention required for the focused enquiry applied to every changing situation, becomes effortless.

When this happens, the body and mind become functions of the enquiry, and the enquiry ceases to be a function of the mind.

I think folks really haven't lived until they have experienced absorption so complete and sustained that even night and day become superfluous and unnoticed.
Walker
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Re: Regarding fasting...

Post by Walker »

"... since they were absorbed in God."

For us lesser mortals, :wink: , first absorption in, Who Am I?

This will naturally lead to absorption in God, for we are formed qualities in the image of.
Impenitent
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Re: Regarding fasting...

Post by Impenitent »

Grand prix drivers eat well...

-Imp
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Regarding fasting...

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

dattaswami wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:16 am ........
The scripture says that a Brahmin should take milk and other castes can take some solids also, on a ritual day (payo brahamanasyavratam… Veda). You should not fast without food leading to weakness and you should not over eat resulting in sleep. Fasting means taking limited food. The Veda and the Gita say that limited food is always good (yuktaahaara…, adyatetticha…).
..........
You are too long winded on the above and worst without qualification in condemning the 'class' discrimination from the scripture.

Generally ALL humans need to survive [at least till the inevitable] efficiently and optimally within one current constraints.

To survive, one's body [like a machine] has to be activated to work involving many parts & mechanisms 24 hours a day throughout one's life with many organs working without stopping.
As evidently with machines [similar to human body], to maintain efficiency, there is need to clean on a daily basis and once in a while do an overall cleaning of the whole machine. This will involve stoppage to facilitate repairs and cleaning.

Similarly the body organs and other parts must be cleaned and repairs be facilitated. This is where fasting [water] is critical.
When one does a water fasting, the digestion and related metabolic process will stop and thus the body has the opportunity and direct energy [using excess fat] to clean up whatever is clogged in the miles of tubes in the body and enable energy and resources to do whatever repairs is necessary.

Note this :shock: :shock:
  • This vast system of blood vessels - arteries, veins, and capillaries - is over 60,000 miles long. That's long enough to go around the world more than twice! Blood flows continuously through your body's blood vessels. Your heart is the pump that makes it all possible.
    https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/a ... -your-body#:
The number of cells in the body;
  • They estimate, for example, that we have 50 billion fat cells and 2 billion heart muscle cells. Adding up all their numbers, the scientists came up with … drumroll …37.2 trillion cells in the average human body. :shock: :shock:
Note the process of Autophagy.
  • Autophagy (pronounced “ah-TAH-fah-gee”) is your body's process of reusing old and damaged cell parts. Cells are the basic building blocks of every tissue and organ in your body. Each cell contains multiple parts that keep it functioning. Over time, these parts can become defective or stop working.
So there is a critical need to do fasting so as to clean up and facilitate repairs within the above complex mechanisms, 60,000 miles!! :shock: and 37.2 trillion parts, etc.

There is no need to fuss over scriptures and blah blah blah.
What is need is evident verifiable and justifiable empirical knowledge to keep the body in optimum conditions for one's well being.

I do intermittent fasting everyday, i.e. without food for 14 hours and a 3-5 days fasting on water only every 3 months without any religious fuss.

Btw, a 300 pound obese person can survive on water only [with essential supplements] for a YEAR on body fats alone.
Walker
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Re: Regarding fasting...

Post by Walker »

Impenitent wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:10 am Grand prix drivers eat well...

-Imp
Grand goes with prix like Holly goes with wood.

Speaking of Grand Prix, the other day while squinting at his prompter, Brandon said Marcus de Lafayette. (chuckle)
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Lacewing
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Re: Regarding fasting...

Post by Lacewing »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:45 am There is no need to fuss over scriptures and blah blah blah.
What is need is evident verifiable and justifiable empirical knowledge to keep the body in optimum conditions for one's well being.
Agreed. The body communicates what it needs when we're in-tune with it. No religion necessary.
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