THE WAY TO CANCEL OUR SINS

[dattaswami]

Punishment given for a sin is only to change the mind of the soul and purify it. There is no trace of revenge in this. The hell is an indication of the intensive love of God to the souls through which God wants to reform the souls. The hell indicates the hectic effort of God put on the soul to reform it and not to leave the soul for its fate.

A father may leave his son since he is not changing inspite of all his efforts. But in the hell God puts serious effort and succeeds to change the soul. Therefore, even thousands of fathers cannot be equal to God. God is not leaving the soul without changing it and this point is indicated by the punishment and hell.

Therefore, there is no point of excusing the Prarabhdas if this true basis is understood. God will try to change the soul through preaching as far as possible. Punishment in the hell is the last resort. Once the soul is reformed all the sins are smashed since there is neither the necessity of preaching nor the necessity of punishment.

The Divine Father is taking the best care of each soul. Even the punishments given by God here on earth and hereafter in hell, only indicate His anxiety to reform the sinful soul, which is His child. Hell is the reflection of God’s highest kindness, which helps in reforming souls. Hell is not the reflection of His anger or desire for revenge. If we understand this very subtle point, we will be very peaceful about things taking place in this world. There is no error taking place in the divine administration.


Everything taking place in this world is the result of the most perfect working of God’s wonderful administration. No soul can even dream of running the world in a better way than the way it is being run.

It is our utter ignorance that causes us to misunderstand God and stray (stay) away from the path of self-purification. We are ignorant of the deeds of other souls. We are ignorant of the most wonderful divine administration working in the background. We are ignorant of God’s supreme talents and capabilities in administering and reforming souls. Above all, we are ignorant of the supreme kindness of God towards all souls.


We are worried about things, about which we need not be worried at all! People were worried about Jesus when He was carrying the cross. He told them not to worry about Him. He was under the direct supervision of the kindest Lord. Instead, He told them to worry about themselves and their children.

He might have suffered for a few hours, but He was going to sit forever on the right lap of the Divine Father! These people, who were worried about Him, might be living happily on earth for a little while, but they were going to be thrown into the liquid fire forever along with their future generations! So, who should be worried? The spectators or Jesus?


A person may finish off the punishment of his or her sin by suffering for it here. The person may then get a wonderful new divine birth in the immediate future. Another person, who is wasting his time in sympathizing with this suffering person, instead of focusing on his own reformation, may finally get thrown into the liquid fire forever! Hence, it is always advisable to focus on self-rectification than unnecessarily wasting time in investigating and judging God’s administration of this world.



All the punishments are only for reformation of the soul and not for revenge. The hell is created by God not with vengeance against sinners but due to kindness to reform the souls. God is always kind to reform the souls, which are His children since the souls are created by Him.

The father will never have even a trace of vengeance towards his issues. Jesus always addressed God as father and He propagated this concept by saying that all your sins will be excused by God if you are reformed. Practical knowledge, the practical realization, which is the reformation, will cancel all your previous bad deeds or sins as told in Gita (Jnanaagnih….). Except this one way, there is no other way to cancel the sins and escape from all the present problems in the world and future torture in the hell.

If you are not doing any sin, you are excused for all past sins

The results of all your good actions will be separate and will not interfere with the cancellation of sins. God will give you good results for all your prayers and any prayer will not cancel even a trace of your sin. Similarly, your charity.

If these good actions can reform you, then, your sins will be cancelled. Therefore, reformation of the soul is the only way by which God is pleased to cancel your sins. Even if you do not believe in God, it does not matter. If you are not doing any sin, you are excused for all past sins and you will live with immense happiness in the world and after death also.

If you are doing a sin, you are going against the will of God

You cannot please God by prayers and service simultaneously doing sins. If you are doing a sin, you are going against the will of God and you are insulting God. You cannot please and insult God simultaneously. Therefore, every devotee and servant of God should be careful about the concept of the sin and about the only path to cancel the sin.


Several devotees belonging to the nivṛtti (loving and serving God) line treat pravṛtti(obeying justice) as if it were a lower level. They even commit sins, violating the justice of pravṛtti. This is totally wrong. Pravṛtti is not lower than nivṛtti. It is only the prior step before nivṛtti. If You cross one station and reach the next station, do You think that the first station is lower than the second station? Moreover, the same God is the Chief Controller in pravṛtti as well as nivṛtti.

If You damage a factory’s administration, which is like pravṛtti, and do some personal service for the factory-owner at his house, which is like nivṛtti, do You think the owner will be pleased with Your personal service? If You do not damage the factory and help in its administration, the owner will be pleased with You even if You do not do his personal service.

Even if You do not choose the path of nivṛtti, God does not bother about it. He will be pleased with You even if You follow pravṛtti, which is supporting justice in the world and avoiding sin. The path of sin is called duṣpravṛtti. If You support pravṛtti and also follow nivṛtti, God is greatly pleased with You. It is like the factory-owner, who is extremely pleased with the servant doing personal service for him at his house as well as doing good service in the factory.
In any religion, and in any region of the world, God-in-human-form gives a lot of stress on reaching the human level (pravṛtti) and warns souls to not fall down to the animal level (duṣpravṛtti). This is because the major lot of humanity is only in the bottommost animal level. Even if a soul rises to the human level or to divine level (nivṛtti), which is above the human level, it can easily slip and fall to the basic animal level due to its inherent human nature.

Hence, a major part of any holy scripture is confined only to the glorifying pravṛtti and warning against duṣpravṛtti. Falling from nivṛtti to pravṛtti is not that bad since the fall affects only that individual whereas the fall from pravṛtti or nivṛtti down to the lowest level of duṣpravṛtti is very dangerous since it affects the peace of the surrounding world. Maintaining the peace of the world is very important for God. The world is like a board-game of Snakes and Ladders.

Both ladders for climbing up and snakes for sliding down are present. Spiritual knowledge is thought to be mere theoretical gossip mainly related to nivṛtti. This is totally wrong since this very knowledge of nivṛtti also ensures at every step that the soul does not fall to the basic animal level. Thus, spiritual knowledge is highly essential for pravṛtti or practical life in this world
If you avoid the three sins, you will be happy without any misery

My dear disciple! Listen Me. If you avoid the three sins, you will be happy without any misery. By taking only one instrument, which is devotion to God, you can travel in one path only succeeding in both pravrutti and nivrutti.

[Pravrutti is attachment to worldly bonds seeking protection (of the self and own worldly bonds) from God. Hence, in Pravrutti also, the soul tries to please the God. In the process of pleasing God, the inevitable fundamental step is not to make God to become angry with you and punish you for your sins. God is unimaginable and will punish you here as well as in hell after death even if you escape the law here. All your worldly miseries are due to your sins only. Excessive sins are punished here itself.

You can’t escape the punishment of sins by worship of God (which is false concept propagated by priests for their earning). The only way to escape the punishments for all sins done is realization from spiritual knowledge, repentance and non-repetition of sin in practice from today onwards. This will cancel all the pending sins (samchita) and avoids future sins (aagaami). If you are true in this and a sincere devotee of God worshipping Him without aspiration for any fruit in return, God will cancel the punishment that already started (Praarabdha) also.

Devotion to God giving you the fruits of becoming human incarnation and becoming master of God are personal to God and hence, God is not much worried about this Nivrutti, in which, He often creates obstructions to test your devotion.

But, God is very particular about pravrutti since your sins disturb the world by hurting others. The world is established by God, in which His peaceful administration is expected. God says that illegal sex, violence to hurt or to kill any good living being and greediness to steal others money and wealth through corruption are the three main gates for hell. If you control your over fascination to yourself and your family bonds, you can avoid sin and succeed in Pravrutti.

In Nivrutti, this fascination totally drops by itself spontaneously due to devotion to God. You and your family members may not like Nivrutti and God also doesn’t like nivrutti for your kind information. But, if you keep nivrutti as your ultimate theoretical goal, you will succeed practically in pravrutti at least and hence, for this purpose only, nivrutti is preached for pravrutti aspirants also.

If you start with devotion to God from the beginning, you will succeed in Pravrutti (since devotion to God weakens the fascination that provokes you to do sins) and as the devotion develops slowly to reach climax, Nivrutti is also achieved. Hence, Pravrutti is only an intermediate station in the path of Nivrutti.]



[The general rule is that all the fruits of deeds done in this world are given to the soul in the upper world (hell or heaven) only, which is called as bhogaloka or world of enjoyment of fruits. This is for the sake of giving freedom to the soul in this world called as karma loka or world of deeds. If the soul is stressed by the fruits of the deeds in this world, the soul will not have freedom to learn the spiritual knowledge and get itself transformed.

Hence, the human birth in this world is a golden opportunity for the soul to get transformed and escape all the pending punishments forever through realization, repentance and non-repetition of sin from today onwards! God is following every soul in this world as well as in the upper world like a doctor following the health checkup of the patient continuously. God has the special power to break this general rule and give fruit of past good deed or bad deed in any place at any time depending on the requirement for encouragement or rectification of the soul.

God is like the teacher following continuously the academic progress of his student to take required steps anywhere at any time. Moreover, there is a special rule that intensive sins or good deeds give immediate results here itself. In view of all these rules, adjusting with each other, it is always better for the soul to avoid the sin even if good deeds are not done! The soul must remember one point very strongly, which is that the unimaginable God will punish the sinner, even if he/she escapes the law of the land here!]



It is always better for the soul to avoid the sin even if good deeds are not done!

God is following every soul in this world as well as in the upper world like a doctor following the health checkup of the patient continuously

Intensive sins or good deeds give immediate results here itself.

My dear disciple! Listen Me. For freedom of realization here, fruits are given in the upper world. But, He can break any rule like a doctor or teacher. None can escape the unimaginable God anywhere at any time.

[The general rule is that all the fruits of deeds done in this world are given to the soul in the upper world (hell or heaven) only, which is called as bhogaloka or world of enjoyment of fruits. This is for the sake of giving freedom to the soul in this world called as karma loka or world of deeds.

If the soul is stressed by the fruits of the deeds in this world, the soul will not have freedom to learn the spiritual knowledge and get itself transformed. Hence, the human birth in this world is a golden opportunity for the soul to get transformed and escape all the pending punishments forever through realization, repentance and non-repetition of sin from today onwards!

God is following every soul in this world as well as in the upper world like a doctor following the health checkup of the patient continuously. God has the special power to break this general rule and give fruit of past good deed or bad deed in any place at any time depending on the requirement for encouragement or rectification of the soul. God is like the teacher following continuously the academic progress of his student to take required steps anywhere at any time. Moreover, there is a special rule that intensive sins or good deeds give immediate results here itself.

In view of all these rules, adjusting with each other, it is always better for the soul to avoid the sin even if good deeds are not done! The soul must remember one point very strongly, which is that the unimaginable God will punish the sinner, even if he/she escapes the law of the land here!]



God gives you the fruits in the same phase (theoretical or practical ) in which your effort exists. Almost all spiritual aspirants miss this basic nut. Everybody wants the cancelation of the punishment of his/her sin through theoretical phase like praying God, repenting in mind and words etc. The punishment is in practical phase and can be cancelled by God only when you practice the non-repetition of such sin. You desire a practical fruit from God through your theoretical step! The reason is that you doubt the practical fruit from God for your practical step involving expenditure of money, done before since there was no written agreement signed by God. Due to this reason, for safety, many people promise practical worship to God after getting practical boon from God (payment after delivery)! Due to the same reason i.e., absence of written agreement, people try to avoid this promise also!

There was a case of this type in which Sai Baba demanded a specific amount of offering from a devotee, who promised the same after getting practical boon from God! The Gita says that God approaches devotee with fruit in the same phase as the devotee approaches God with sacrifice (ye yathaa maam ...). The Veda also says the same (Rupam rupam Pratirupo babhuva).



Whenever a suffering person approached Jesus, Jesus always told him that let his sins be excused. He never told that let His suffering disappear. The reason is that suffering is the punishment of the sin. Punishments of emergent severe sins will be given in this world itself and punishments of other sins are given in the hell. Punishment is never for vengeance.

It is aimed only to bring realization followed by repentance resulting in the non-repetition of sin again. Spiritual knowledge alone can bring the realization. True spiritual knowledge is always preached by God in human form only. In the absence of such true spiritual knowledge, punishment acts as a temporary devise to suppress the psychology with fear so that repetition of sin can be avoided at least for some time.

Except this one way, there is no other way like worship of God, Yoga etc.,

[The three main sins (illegal sex, corruption of money, violence like killing animlas for food etc) told as the main gates of hell in the Gita are related to the three vargas (categories) called as Purushaarthas and three strong bonds called as eshanas constitute the sin, which is born in the pain and loss of others and this shall be avoided by every human being sincerely if it wants to escape the miseries and tensions.

The only way is realization from spiritual knowledge that generates emotional repentance and finally ending in practical non-repetition of sin, which again shows the order of knowledge, emotion and practice. By this, all the sins are destroyed even though their fruits are not yet enjoyed by the soul. This is the best festival offer from God to souls! Except this one path, a soul should not be exploited by false advertisements like worship of God, Yoga, etc., to escape from the present misery and future misery to be enjoyed also in one stroke



Actually, God is postponing the punishments to future, which accumulate interest.


[Every human being is worshipping through both theoretical and practical devotion in the stage of total surrender to God only whenever a misery along with tension attacks it. The aim of this misery is only to remind you about its corresponding sin done by you, which is called as realization. Realization is very easy since you can detect the nature of sin from the nature of misery.

The misery continues to make you to repent seriously so that you will not practically repeat that sin in future. Without understanding this background of the punishment for a sin constituted by God, you are forcing God through worships to remove the misery without your realization, repentance and practical non-repetition of the sin in future. In such worships, you flatter Him through prayers and even you bribe Him with practical sacrifice of work and fruit of work. You are thinking that God can be flattered like a foolish king or God can be dealt with practical sacrifice like bribe like a businessman involved in business dealing with practical exchange. In this business deal, some clever devotees promise that they will do practical service after getting the practical boon from God!

This shows the lack of faith in the ethics of business on the side of God! The most clever God postpones your punishments to future with accumulated interest and you are satisfied that God is fooled by flattery or satisfied with the practical exchange deal of business. You are thinking that the Omnipotent God has cancelled all the punishments. Actually, you are fooled since you have to enjoy greater punishments in the future if you don’t realize, do not repent and repeat the sins.]


The reason for the delay in answering your present prayer is only the basic sin, which is forgetting all the past favours.

[Even this temporary relief (postponing punishments with increased interest) given to you by God is not acknowledged by you in your prayers mentioning the help done to you several times in the past, which is the ungratefulness mentioned as the highest sin among the five horrible sins. Your prayers are always regarding your present misery to be removed.

You never pray God with gratitude for the past thousand favours done to you. Getting human birth itself by not opening your file is the biggest favour done to you by God. After this, several times, you prayed and your prayers were answered. Never and not a single prayer was done by you based on the gratitude for the past favours. This is the basic sin done by the human being, which is the actual reason for the delay in answering its present prayer!]

[Walker]

Swami, I can't read all that!

You have already mentioned, somewhere, that the way to cancel our sins is to Go And Sin No More, although I don't think you put it exactly that way.

That short phrase sticks in the conscience.

[dattaswami]

Swami, I can't read all that!

You have already mentioned, somewhere, that the way to cancel our sins is to Go And Sin No More, although I don't think you put it exactly that way.

That short phrase sticks in the conscience.

If you are not doing any sin, you are excused for all past sins

The results of all your good actions will be separate and will not interfere with the cancellation of sins. God will give you good results for all your prayers and any prayer will not cancel even a trace of your sin. Similarly, your charity.

If these good actions can reform you, then, your sins will be cancelled. Therefore, reformation of the soul is the only way by which God is pleased to cancel your sins. Even if you do not believe in God, it does not matter. If you are not doing any sin, you are excused for all past sins and you will live with immense happiness in the world and after death also.

[Iwannaplato]

The Divine Father is taking the best care of each soul. Even the punishments given by God here on earth and hereafter in hell, only indicate His anxiety to reform the sinful soul, which is His child. Hell is the reflection of God’s highest kindness, which helps in reforming souls. Hell is not the reflection of His anger or desire for revenge.

This exactly parallels what the sycophants around tyrants and despots have said about torture and killing performed by earthly monsters. It is precisely the same attitude and includes the same appeal to not feel and not trust yourself.

[dattaswami]

The Divine Father is taking the best care of each soul. Even the punishments given by God here on earth and hereafter in hell, only indicate His anxiety to reform the sinful soul, which is His child. Hell is the reflection of God’s highest kindness, which helps in reforming souls. Hell is not the reflection of His anger or desire for revenge.

This exactly parallels what the sycophants around tyrants and despots have said about torture and killing performed by earthly monsters. It is precisely the same attitude and includes the same appeal to not feel and not trust yourself.

Logic used to carry out sharp analysis which is supported by the scriptures is the only path to disprove any wrong claim. The scripture says that the fruit of the deed must be enjoyed by a soul and that, unless the fruit is enjoyed, it will not vanish even after millions of births (Avaśyamanubhoktavyam…, kalpakotiśatairapi...).

God has clearly said in the Gītā that He will neither cancel the good fruits nor the bad fruits of the deeds of any soul (Nādatte kasyachitpāpaṃ, nacaiva sukṛtaṃ vibhuḥ...). He also said in the Gītā that ignorant people claim otherwise and exploit innocent public (Ajñānenāvṛtaṃ jñānaṃ, tena muhyanti jantavaḥ…).
God has given only one path to burn the fruits of sins, which is the realization by spiritual knowledge leading to repentance and the non-repetition of the sin (Jñāngniḥ sarva karmāṇi, bhasmasāt kurute…). Even a sinner can be reformed by long serious and sincere devotion. By the grace of God, such a sinner being a strong devotee will come in contact with a divine preacher and get reformed (Kṣipraṃ bhavati dharmātmā…).

In this way, in the long run, there is a possibility of burning one’s sins. But it is not possible immediately, without the person’s reformation. The false theory of the immediate cancellation of sins is propagated by the priests so that they can earn their livelihood. They charge fees from innocent people to carry out different forms of worship, which are claimed to cancel the fruits of their sins immediately, even without their reformation.
No reformation is possible by reading some hymns in Sanskrit, which are not understood by anybody doing the worship.

The actual way is that while doing the worship, the priest must explain to the person what he is reciting and help the person get realization through the spiritual knowledge preached through the Sanskrit hymns. The present way of performing the rituals accompanied by the blind recitation of the Veda does not help the person doing worship in any way.

Therefore, if a ritual is not helping in conveying spiritual knowledge and devotion to the public, it is a waste. This important fact should be preached to the priests who conduct these rituals for the public. Only upon getting realization through spiritual knowledge, will there be repentance and only after repentance, will the non-repetition of sin result. Hence, preaching spiritual knowledge through the ritual is the most important aspect of the ritual. You think that God will be pleased with your ritual worship done without spiritual knowledge. You think that He will cancel the fruits of the sins done by you and that He will grant you the good fruits of the meritorious deeds that you never did.

This is totally wrong! For such worship and prayers done by you, He will only rearrange the fruits of your deeds. He will postpone the fruits of your sins due to which you are suffering in the present. But in this rearrangement, interest will be added. So, the postponed punishment, which is the fruit of your sin, will grow and you will have to suffer more in the future.

He will also prepone the fruits of some meritorious deeds, which you were supposed to enjoy in the future and bring them into the present. In this preponement, there will be a reduction in the value of the fruit enjoyed by you. Even this rearrangement is done by God provided God has some hope about the devotee’s future reformation. If He has no such hope in the case of a devotee, even this facility or rearrangement of the fruits of deeds is not extended to the devotee.

[Iwannaplato]

God has clearly said in the Gītā.....

How do you know that it is (only) God speaking in the Gita? Perhaps it was God speaking to a human who filtered the message through his cultural and personal viewpoints on life and there are untruths in the Gita. Why should we trust your choice of what is God's voice? How did you get so much faith in yourself? How do you know that that text does not include important misinterpretations or is culturally bound and radically distorted? How do you know that the Gita is not in part or whole based on denied fear, for example? Or whether it is a good attempt, but ultimately a failed one? or represents a path that only suits some people?

[bobmax]

God has clearly said in the Gītā.....

How do you know that it is (only) God speaking in the Gita? Perhaps it was God speaking to a human who filtered the message through his cultural and personal viewpoints on life and there are untruths in the Gita. Why should we trust your choice of what is God's voice? How did you get so much faith in yourself? How do you know that that text does not include important misinterpretations or is culturally bound and radically distorted? How do you know that the Gita is not in part or whole based on denied fear, for example? Or whether it is a good attempt, but ultimately a failed one? or represents a path that only suits some people?

He can not.
His is only the claim to know the Truth.
And this claim is superstition.

I think it is almost impossible not to fall into superstition.
Because it is really difficult to live in uncertainty.

However, it is necessary to try to realize this.
By avoiding insisting on affirming what you cannot be sure of.
If you do, you fall into fanaticism.

[dattaswami]

God has clearly said in the Gītā.....

How do you know that it is (only) God speaking in the Gita? Perhaps it was God speaking to a human who filtered the message through his cultural and personal viewpoints on life and there are untruths in the Gita. Why should we trust your choice of what is God's voice? How did you get so much faith in yourself? How do you know that that text does not include important misinterpretations or is culturally bound and radically distorted? How do you know that the Gita is not in part or whole based on denied fear, for example? Or whether it is a good attempt, but ultimately a failed one? or represents a path that only suits some people?

One should never ever accept any scripture of any religion blindly without prefect logical analysis of the statements. God is the most genius and He never say anything illogical. If any part is illogical be sure that it is an insertion. Now how to proceed in this very important aspect. The following procedure shall be used to detect illogical statements in any scripture of any religion.




What is scripture? Scripture is defined as the word of God, which is the knowledge given by God for the sake of welfare of humanity. All agree to this. But, to give word, which is preaching of knowledge, God must have mouth and throat. We have established that God is unimaginable because the substance with which God is made and the original form in which God exists are unimaginable.

In such case, how can you say that God has told this or that? Even the Veda, believed as the composed scripture by God, mentions the names of sages as the composers (Rushi) of each part. This clearly shows that the sages have composed the Vedas. Lord Buddha, one of the human incarnations, also told that the Vedas are composed by human beings (devoted sages) only and hence the Vedas are called as ‘Paurusheyas’. All this is perfectly correct as one side of the concept. The other side of this topic is to believe the Vedas as scriptures composed by God and hence the Vedas are called as ‘Apaurusheyas’.

There is a controversy between Buddha and Hindu tradition in this point. Instead of bringing controversy up and to conclude that Buddha and Hindu tradition differ with each other, it is always better to show the correlation between these two opposing views. The correlation is that God revealed this knowledge called the Veda to the devoted sages and these devoted sages expressed that divine knowledge in their own statements. The composer of knowledge is God and the composer of the statement expressing that knowledge is the devoted sage.

In the angle of God, the Veda is Aparusheya and in the angle of the devoted sage, the Veda is Paurusheya. Both views are correct without any contradiction. But, the meaning of statement is knowledge and this is the most important essence by which alone humanity is benefited. The language acts as a vehicle of communication only and is not so important as the knowledge. The goods in the vehicle is knowledge and the vehicle is the language. Both are necessary. The payment for the transport by vehicle is very little compared to the payment for goods indicating values.

The scripture itself says that you should analyze every statement of the scripture through scientific analysis. This does not mean that the scripture doubts about its own genuine value. The idea of the suggestion of analysis by the scripture itself is to test its every statement to ensure that it is said by God (Knowledge wise) and not inserted by some wrong scholar.

[Iwannaplato]

One should never ever accept any scripture of any religion blindly without prefect logical analysis of the statements. God is the most genius and He never say anything illogical. If any part is illogical be sure that it is an insertion. Now how to proceed in this very important aspect. The following procedure shall be used to detect illogical statements in any scripture of any religion.

Things can be untrue and yet logical. Logic has to do with coherence between statements, and statments and conclusions.

We have established that God is unimaginable because the substance with which God is made and the original form in which God exists are unimaginable.

This is tautology.

In such case, how can you say that God has told this or that? Even the Veda, believed as the composed scripture by God, mentions the names of sages as the composers (Rushi) of each part. This clearly shows that the sages have composed the Vedas.

Actually it doesn't show it. It is a claim made by whoever orginally collected these texts. 'Mentions the names' is not remotely evidence.

There is a controversy between Buddha and Hindu tradition in this point. Instead of bringing controversy up and to conclude that Buddha and Hindu tradition differ with each other, it is always better to show the correlation between these two opposing views.

Why is it always better to do that with opposing views? What if the truth, for example, is that each was partly correct and partly false. Then it is best to look at both the areas in common and the differences.

The correlation is that God revealed this knowledge called the Veda to the devoted sages and these devoted sages expressed that divine knowledge in their own statements. The composer of knowledge is God and the composer of the statement expressing that knowledge is the devoted sage.

Which is not what the Buddha and Hinduism have in common, it is simply ignoring what the Buddha said.

The scripture itself says that you should analyze every statement of the scripture through scientific analysis.

I truly doubt that the vedas referred to science in the modern meaning of the word. Logic, perhaps, some kind of empirical process, perhaps, but not science. And there is no way to analyze, using science (at this time) many if not most of the assertions in the veda.

This does not mean that the scripture doubts about its own genuine value. The idea of the suggestion of analysis by the scripture itself is to test its every statement to ensure that it is said by God (Knowledge wise) and not inserted by some wrong scholar.

Explain how we can analyze, for example, the following scientifically...

Mantra 1 – Agni (Author: Madhucchandas Vaisvamitra)
1 I glorify Agni, the divine Priest and the messenger of my
oblations to God who is the bestower of prosperity.
2 May Agni, the divine Priest who is glorified by both the past and the present sages,
increase and strengthen our bond with the Devas.
3 Praying to God though Agni, the Angel Priest, may we the worshippers
obtain valiant offspring, and daily increasing prosperity and glory.
4 Agni, the perfect sacrifice which thou encompassest about
Verily goeth to the Gods.
5 May Agni, sapient-minded Priest, truthful, most gloriously great

[Iwannaplato]

God has clearly said in the Gītā.....

How do you know that it is (only) God speaking in the Gita? Perhaps it was God speaking to a human who filtered the message through his cultural and personal viewpoints on life and there are untruths in the Gita. Why should we trust your choice of what is God's voice? How did you get so much faith in yourself? How do you know that that text does not include important misinterpretations or is culturally bound and radically distorted? How do you know that the Gita is not in part or whole based on denied fear, for example? Or whether it is a good attempt, but ultimately a failed one? or represents a path that only suits some people?

He can not.
His is only the claim to know the Truth.
And this claim is superstition.

I think it is almost impossible not to fall into superstition.
Because it is really difficult to live in uncertainty.

However, it is necessary to try to realize this.
By avoiding insisting on affirming what you cannot be sure of.
If you do, you fall into fanaticism.

You've already made thousands of assertions here at this forum. Are you sure of all of them?

[dattaswami]

One should never ever accept any scripture of any religion blindly without prefect logical analysis of the statements. God is the most genius and He never say anything illogical. If any part is illogical be sure that it is an insertion. Now how to proceed in this very important aspect. The following procedure shall be used to detect illogical statements in any scripture of any religion.

Things can be untrue and yet logical. Logic has to do with coherence between statements, and statments and conclusions.

We have established that God is unimaginable because the substance with which God is made and the original form in which God exists are unimaginable.

This is tautology.

In such case, how can you say that God has told this or that? Even the Veda, believed as the composed scripture by God, mentions the names of sages as the composers (Rushi) of each part. This clearly shows that the sages have composed the Vedas.

Actually it doesn't show it. It is a claim made by whoever orginally collected these texts. 'Mentions the names' is not remotely evidence.

There is a controversy between Buddha and Hindu tradition in this point. Instead of bringing controversy up and to conclude that Buddha and Hindu tradition differ with each other, it is always better to show the correlation between these two opposing views.

Why is it always better to do that with opposing views? What if the truth, for example, is that each was partly correct and partly false. Then it is best to look at both the areas in common and the differences.

The correlation is that God revealed this knowledge called the Veda to the devoted sages and these devoted sages expressed that divine knowledge in their own statements. The composer of knowledge is God and the composer of the statement expressing that knowledge is the devoted sage.

Which is not what the Buddha and Hinduism have in common, it is simply ignoring what the Buddha said.

The scripture itself says that you should analyze every statement of the scripture through scientific analysis.

I truly doubt that the vedas referred to science in the modern meaning of the word. Logic, perhaps, some kind of empirical process, perhaps, but not science. And there is no way to analyze, using science (at this time) many if not most of the assertions in the veda.

This does not mean that the scripture doubts about its own genuine value. The idea of the suggestion of analysis by the scripture itself is to test its every statement to ensure that it is said by God (Knowledge wise) and not inserted by some wrong scholar.

Explain how we can analyze, for example, the following scientifically...

Mantra 1 – Agni (Author: Madhucchandas Vaisvamitra)
1 I glorify Agni, the divine Priest and the messenger of my
oblations to God who is the bestower of prosperity.
2 May Agni, the divine Priest who is glorified by both the past and the present sages,
increase and strengthen our bond with the Devas.
3 Praying to God though Agni, the Angel Priest, may we the worshippers
obtain valiant offspring, and daily increasing prosperity and glory.
4 Agni, the perfect sacrifice which thou encompassest about
Verily goeth to the Gods.
5 May Agni, sapient-minded Priest, truthful, most gloriously great

Reserve Bank asks every bank to test every note of the bundle to ensure that all notes belong to Reserve Bank only. For this purpose, every note must be checked. If a note is found to be genuine note printed by Reserve Bank, the Reserve Bank should not feel that it is insulted because even the genuine note printed by it is tested! Once we found the note to be genuine, we will not test that genuine note again and again doubting the Reserve Bank itself.

We know that the Reserve Bank will not print a fake note and that God will not say illogical knowledge to sages. A preliminary and final test of each note is essential to find whether the note is genuine or fake. If you get the bundle of notes directly from the press of Reserve Bank, there is no need of test. But, since the notes printed by Reserve Bank have gone in to market facing rotation for a long time, we cannot believe that every note is genuine and should not be tested by analysis. Similarly, we have not received the scripture straight from the devoted sages. The scripture given by God to sages and subsequently delivered by sages did not come to us straight from the mouths of sages. Long time has gone before we received the scripture delivered by sages. In this long time, so many insertions might have entered the scripture.

The printing technology did not exist during this long period so that we can say that the scripture delivered by sages was immediately printed and no insertions could take place. Even if it is orally preserved through recitations from generation to generation, we cannot rule out totally the possibility of insertions. If the scripture is totally genuine without any insertion, it will pass out through the test of analysis like Sita passing out the test of fire.

Why should you fear for the test if it is genuine? After passing through the test of analysis, nobody will dare to say that the scripture is believed blindly by the conservative followers. This unnecessary blame on the scripture as well as on the followers can be avoided by the test. Such test will reinforce the faith in every follower especially in the absence of doubts and blames. Even the scripture like the Gita told by the human incarnations, has equal possibility of insertions and hence analysis was recommended by the Gita itself as the last word. Scripture of no religion is an exception of this concept.

[bobmax]

You've already made thousands of assertions here at this forum. Are you sure of all of them?

I am not sure of anything.
Because faith is never certainty.

However, it is necessary to take risks.
My thousand affirmations are in reality many facets of a single affirmation: The Good is.

And everything follows.
But everything must be consistent with this.

Perhaps this is why arbitrary statements appear, but it is only arbitrary: the Good is!

This is a necessary stance.
How well the mystic sees.

And this arbitrary choice is perhaps the only authentic individual freedom. And maybe not even that ...

I would be happy to discuss my thousands of statements, which all derive from that single statement, but it seems to me that there is rarely a concrete contradiction.

Perhaps because they are statements that are paradoxical, or perhaps because of inability to investigate ...

[Iwannaplato]

I am not sure of anything.
Because faith is never certainty.

However, it is necessary to take risks.

I agree. I think we need to take stands and then also it's interesting when people do. Me personally, I think the Vedas might have cultural and personal distortions, even if I agreed with the type of spirituality in the Vedas, which I don't, but that's another matter. These old ideas are presented as if universally applicable, plus the person repeating them somehow always finds them perfect, but generally doesn't take responsibility for what this says about them: they are claiming to be able to discern the voice of God and judge it completely undistorted. That's a huge claim. Better it is explicit rather than implicit, I think.

[bobmax]

I am not sure of anything.
Because faith is never certainty.

However, it is necessary to take risks.

I agree. I think we need to take stands and then also it's interesting when people do. Me personally, I think the Vedas might have cultural and personal distortions, even if I agreed with the type of spirituality in the Vedas, which I don't, but that's another matter. These old ideas are presented as if universally applicable, plus the person repeating them somehow always finds them perfect, but generally doesn't take responsibility for what this says about them: they are claiming to be able to discern the voice of God and judge it completely undistorted. That's a huge claim. Better it is explicit rather than implicit, I think.

Yes, you have to take responsibility for the risk.
And that means exposing oneself to the possibility of suffering.
Because we were wrong...

It is necessary to throw the heart over the obstacle. Without any certainty of not being shipwrecked.
But this must be done.

And then you can't appeal to anything or anyone.
Yes, what has been said and written can help you, but then it's up to you, in perfect solitude to take the risk.

Truth needs you.

[Iwannaplato]

Even the scripture like the Gita told by the human incarnations, has equal possibility of insertions and hence analysis was recommended by the Gita itself as the last word. Scripture of no religion is an exception of this concept.

This was a very abstract answer told in metaphor. Show us how it is done. Demonstrate that that the quote I had from the Vedas was logical.

Mantra 1 – Agni (Author: Madhucchandas Vaisvamitra)
1 I glorify Agni, the divine Priest and the messenger of my
oblations to God who is the bestower of prosperity.
2 May Agni, the divine Priest who is glorified by both the past and the present sages,
increase and strengthen our bond with the Devas.
3 Praying to God though Agni, the Angel Priest, may we the worshippers
obtain valiant offspring, and daily increasing prosperity and glory.
4 Agni, the perfect sacrifice which thou encompassest about
Verily goeth to the Gods.
5 May Agni, sapient-minded Priest, truthful, most gloriously great

For example, demonstrate that it is both scientific and logical that

Praying to God though Agni, the Angel Priest, may we the worshippers
obtain valiant offspring, and daily increasing prosperity and glory.

Works.
Show us that this passage fits with both science and logic.