America has completely lost the plot.

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Sculptor
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by Sculptor »

DPMartin wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:07 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:57 pm America has completely lost the plot.


Uvalde school Parents cuffed, peppered, and tazered.

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2022/ ... r3vazfsmww
it wants to be like Europeans where control, is more important then the situation at hand.
Not sure what this is about. Europeans might have more gun laws but enjoy more personal freedoms than the USA because of that.
The the UK the police are more polite and unthreatening. You don't tend to get shot.
And I think it is true to say that in Europe no one has been shot by a toddler.
What you mean by "the situation at hand"?? Such situations as Uvalde are very rare where I come from. I can only think of one school shooting and that was in the early 1980s, after which rules to enter gun clubs were tightened and a repeat shooting has not yet happened as fat as I remember.


if my memory serves one of the 911 planes was hijacked with a box cutter. this will get worse, and gov. will use this to gain more control of law abiding citizen in the name of their safety
In the US the public cannot be trusted, so more controls are necessary.
The reason they cannot be trusted is that there are more guns than people. Think about it!

the police should have give their guns to the parents if they were to afraid. then they wouldn't have to control anyone.
Yeah. Parents would probably have shot the police too.
Great solution!
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henry quirk
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by henry quirk »

This set off my BS detector...
Europeans might have more gun laws but enjoy more personal freedoms than the USA because of that.
What personal freedoms do Europeans enjoy that I, an American, do not?
DPMartin
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by DPMartin »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:42 pm
Yeah. Parents would probably have shot the police too.
Great solution!
in the case of the OP yes it would be a great solution, stand around waiting for children to be shot is deplorable. here is a case where those in your opinion should have guns if anyone should have guns, and the public shouldn't have guns. since when do you justify that the government should be trusted over the public.
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by Sculptor »

DPMartin wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:25 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:42 pm
Yeah. Parents would probably have shot the police too.
Great solution!
in the case of the OP yes it would be a great solution, stand around waiting for children to be shot is deplorable. here is a case where those in your opinion should have guns if anyone should have guns, and the public shouldn't have guns. since when do you justify that the government should be trusted over the public.
If the public was not allowed to have guns then those children would still be alive.

But I do not imagine that America is smart enough to do that, and I have never argued that.
That is a straw man.
What would help is that gun ownership would like car ownership requite a licence, and each gun, like each car would require a registration.
Children, such as the shooter if Uvalde would not be allowed to possess, buy or use a gun, and criminals would also attract a ban so that possession would mean instant incarceration.

How could any responsible citizen object?
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by Sculptor »

henry quirk wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:52 pm This set off my BS detector...
Europeans might have more gun laws but enjoy more personal freedoms than the USA because of that.
What personal freedoms do Europeans enjoy that I, an American, do not?
The freedom not to be shot by a child.
The freedom to be policed by people who are not constantly shitting themselves.
The freedom of never having to think about guns or the threat of being shot.
The freedom to know that your child is safe at school.
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henry quirk
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by henry quirk »

The freedom not to be shot by a child.
The freedom to be policed by people who are not constantly shitting themselves.
The freedom of never having to think about guns or the threat of being shot.
The freedom to know that your child is safe at school.
In other words: to you, safety is freedom.
DPMartin
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by DPMartin »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:43 pm
DPMartin wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:25 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:42 pm
Yeah. Parents would probably have shot the police too.
Great solution!
in the case of the OP yes it would be a great solution, stand around waiting for children to be shot is deplorable. here is a case where those in your opinion should have guns if anyone should have guns, and the public shouldn't have guns. since when do you justify that the government should be trusted over the public.
If the public was not allowed to have guns then those children would still be alive.

in this case maybe, but the only ones who would have gun's your way in the US are the criminals. gun control is through legal means not illegal means which is actually a bigger issue then a rouge running of the reservation with something he shouldn't have. he could have used a homemade bomb or something else.

this still is a free area of movement with vast areas not monitored by gov. not a group of national borders every 300 to 1000 miles or so.
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henry quirk
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by henry quirk »

America has completely lost the plot.
Indeed we have. We lost it when, among other things, we were hoodwinked into believin' legislators, bureaucrats, and other such examples of the finer clay were as invested in preservin' our lives, liberties, and properties as we are. We lost the plot when we willingly turned ourselves over to these parasites, these flim-flam men, these snake oil salesmen, these would-be slavers.

Look at us now: fat, weak, and too scared to tell our employees: no, that's enough, no more.

Even as our public servants overtly fail -- to preserve us, to represent us, to even listen to us -- we grumble and gripe but still continue to shuffle down the chute they built to corral us into the abattoir.

We're mooks: we deserve what's comin'.

Even so: the fat chick ain't sung yet.

America ain't some pissy lil island you can drive across in a day. It's BIG and once was unruly. It can be unruly again. And its people, diminished as they are, still have sumthin' of yesterday's fire in their bones. They overplayed their hand, overstepped too openly, and, becuz of that we are trimmin' down, movin' iron, and musterin' our courage. We're, rightfully, beginnin' to see the first three boxes as the waste of time they currently are, and, slowly, tentatively, we're gettin' comfortable with, reacquainting ourselves with, the possibility the fourth box damn well might need openin'. We're beginnin' to remember that these monkeys on our backs are there solely becuz we consent to it and where consent is given, consent can be aggressively withdraw.

So: yeah, America has lost the plot...but not completely...not irrevocably.
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by Dubious »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:31 pm
America has completely lost the plot.
Indeed we have. We lost it when, among other things, we were hoodwinked into believin' legislators, bureaucrats, and other such examples of the finer clay were as invested in preservin' our lives, liberties, and properties as we are. We lost the plot when we willingly turned ourselves over to these parasites, these flim-flam men, these snake oil salesmen, these would-be slavers.

Look at us now: fat, weak, and too scared to tell our employees: no, that's enough, no more.

Even as our public servants overtly fail -- to preserve us, to represent us, to even listen to us -- we grumble and gripe but still continue to shuffle down the chute they built to corral us into the abattoir.

We're mooks: we deserve what's comin'.

Even so: the fat chick ain't sung yet.

America ain't some pissy lil island you can drive across in a day. It's BIG and once was unruly. It can be unruly again. And its people, diminished as they are, still have sumthin' of yesterday's fire in their bones. They overplayed their hand, overstepped too openly, and, becuz of that we are trimmin' down, movin' iron, and musterin' our courage. We're, rightfully, beginnin' to see the first three boxes as the waste of time they currently are, and, slowly, tentatively, we're gettin' comfortable with, reacquainting ourselves with, the possibility the fourth box damn well might need openin'. We're beginnin' to remember that these monkeys on our backs are there solely becuz we consent to it and where consent is given, consent can be aggressively withdraw.

So: yeah, America has lost the plot...but not completely...not irrevocably.
Great speech! I endorse thee to be the George Washington of America's 2nd revolution for Independence! Let's make America Great Again :!:
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henry quirk
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by henry quirk »

Therein lies a good chunk of our problem: we keep waitin' on a George Washington to save us.

We keep givin' over to the smooth talker or the imposin' figure or some other finer clay.

They aren't finer or better or smarter or wiser or stronger or braver.

Generally, what they are is: sociopathic, glib, and well-financed.

That's it: that's all.

Oh, and each and every one believes he's necessary.

Not a one of 'em is.
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by henry quirk »

Let's make America Great Again
More modestly, and more substantively, I'd prefer America be Land of the Free.

nuthin' more or less
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

You mean like it was when it had slavery, lynchings and segregation?
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by popeye1945 »

American has never been what it pretends to be that is perhaps why it is as paranoid both domestically and internationally. America in general as an empire is not a nice entity. America never has been the virtue of the world but its self-talk gives it this American exceptionalism which as stated before is historically true that it is the seed of fascism. We all know where German exceptionalism lead, it really doesn't seem all that hard to convince a population that it is better than any other. America's wretched mentality seems to be eroding it from within, what was it old Abe said, the undoing will come from within. America globally has been an evil presence in the world and the world will not mourn this empire's fall. As cesspools go it is pretty bad.
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by Dubious »

popeye1945 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:43 pm American has never been what it pretends to be that is perhaps why it is as paranoid both domestically and internationally. America in general as an empire is not a nice entity. America never has been the virtue of the world but its self-talk gives it this American exceptionalism which as stated before is historically true that it is the seed of fascism. We all know where German exceptionalism lead, it really doesn't seem all that hard to convince a population that it is better than any other. America's wretched mentality seems to be eroding it from within, what was it old Abe said, the undoing will come from within. America globally has been an evil presence in the world and the world will not mourn this empire's fall. As cesspools go it is pretty bad.
Most of what you write may be true to some extent. The problem is what replaces it as the main Western power. Is it one of the two Eastern powers, though Russia is hardly a superpower except, at most, militarily. That only leaves China.

Europe, though it may have considerable clout both economically and militarily, is too fractional when it comes to any decision-making process and everyone required to agree before any action is taken. That kind of organization insures instant defeat against an enemy where only one has the final authority to implement action.

Considering the outcome, whatever America is, it's the least of all evils at the moment.

Btw, what Lincoln said was A house divided against itself cannot stand.
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Re: America has completely lost the plot.

Post by popeye1945 »

[quote=Dubious

Most of what you write may be true to some extent. The problem is what replaces it as the main Western power. Is it one of the two Eastern powers, though Russia is hardly a superpower except, at most, militarily. That only leaves China.
Europe, though it may have considerable clout both economically and militarily, is too fractional when it comes to any decision-making process and everyone required to agree before any action is taken. That kind of organization insures instant defeat against an enemy where only one has the final authority to implement action. Considering the outcome, whatever America is, it's the least of all evils at the moment.

Btw, what Lincoln said was A house divided against itself cannot stand.
[/quote]

Dubious,

I surely would not agree America is the least of all evils and with her present aggression she is presently putting the entire world in jeopardy. America doesn't differ from Nazi Germany in this way, its desire for global domination. As the old President Bush stated, " The world will just have to get used to the idea that what we say goes!" Lincoln, yes he said that too, but he also said that we need not fear a threat from without not in thousand years, the threat will come from within. Whatever America is, she is a global criminal. Empire has two goals expand and survive by any means necessary and the necessary has been very hard on weaker nations, America is not much loved globally. As Jimmy Carter just recently stated, "Globally America is deemed the most warlike nation in the world." The fact that it has a permanent war economy means it needs wars, it's good for business.
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