Dictionaries' Meanings of 'Fact' are Kid's Stuff

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Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Dictionaries' Meanings of 'Fact' are Kid's Stuff

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Peter Holmes wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:00 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 4:12 am
Peter Holmes wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 2:56 pm Wot.
I am asking again, what is the grounding of your 'what is fact'? So far you are making groundless claims.
Here are some dictionary definitions.
Notice the two radically different uses of the word 'fact':
a feature of reality that is or was the case; and a thing that's true -
the second of which refers to a true factual assertion - a description - typically a linguistic expression.
Obviously, outside language, features of reality have no truth-value. Features of reality just are, neither true nor false. Reality is not linguistic.
Instead of "Wot" now at least you are trying to respond with your best shots.
Unfortunately leveraging on dictionaries meaning of 'what is fact' is really kindergarten-philosophy.

I did a survey of 'what is fact' from 13 dictionaries.
To apply a higher level of philosophy, one need to get into the essence of beyond the dictionaries meanings of what is fact.

If you reflect more deeply on the various meanings of "what is fact" in all these dictionaries, the underlying principles is,
what is fact is conditioned upon as specific FSK [explicit or implied].

Note these plain meanings [from above] of 'what is fact'
  • 1 : something that really exists or has occurred
    2. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true or
    3. something that actually exists; reality; truth:
The above are merely bare assertions of 'what is truth' but it implicit within these claims that they must be grounded on some kind of FSK, where the following meaning is more explicit;
  • as above; something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists.
    or
    a thing that is known or proved to be true.
    .."he ignores some historical and economic facts"
    something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
    ..No decision will be made until we know all the facts.
    You can't argue with facts: a fact is something proven to be true.
    A thing that is known or proved to be true.
    a thing that is known to be true, especially when it can be proved
    The definition of a fact is something that is true or something that has occurred or has been proven correct.
    ..An example of a fact is that the world is round.
    Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed
Where 'proof' [or demonstrated] are mentioned, it definitely point to proving the fact based on a specific FSK.

Here are the more specific meaning of what is fact,
  • An objective consensus on a fundamental reality that has been agreed upon by a substantial number of people.
    There is no doubting the fact that the Earth orbits the Sun.
    https://www.yourdictionary.com/fact
This is referring to scientific facts from the scientific FSK.

You will note the dictionaries meaning progressively advance from the kid's stuff to the more refined philosophical meanings which is most valid for our purpose, which I had directly reference to the WIKI's definition of fact;
  • A fact is something that is true. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement by experiments or other means.

    For example,
    "This sentence contains words." accurately describes a linguistic fact, and
    "The sun is a star" accurately describes an astronomical fact. Further,
    "Abraham Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States" and "Abraham Lincoln was assassinated" both accurately describe historical facts.
    Generally speaking, facts are independent of belief and of knowledge and opinion.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact
Thus my definition and principle of 'what is fact' is the most accurate one for philosophical purposes, i.e.
  • 1. Whatever is fact must be conditioned to a specific framework and system [of knowledge, language games, whatever].

    2. The credibility of the fact will depend on the credibility of the said F&S relied upon; the scientific [& mathematics] FSKs are the most credible and thus are the standard.
Notice the two radically different uses of the word 'fact':
a feature of reality that is or was the case; and a thing that's true -
the second of which refers to a true factual assertion - a description - typically a linguistic expression.
Obviously, outside language, features of reality have no truth-value. Features of reality just are, neither true nor false. Reality is not linguistic.
I have surveyed the meaning of what is fact from 13 dictionaries, none of them refer to fact in terms of 'that is or was the case' or your usual 'states of affairs' [see post below]. [if any, it would be a very rare one]
I believe your very narrow and restricted definition of what is fact is confined to a specific linguistic FSK which you admit has no link to reality, thus your 'what is fact' is unrealistic.
Your mistake is to confuse the two different uses of the word 'fact', ignoring the first and primary use: 'something that really exists or has occurred', etc.
Your claim that such a thing doesn't and can't exist outside a descriptive context is false.
We say a factual assertion is true only if it asserts something that really does exist outside the descriptive context - namely, a fact.
In the first place, your 'what is fact' is delusional, i.e. it is not based on reality as you admitted but rather it is a linguistic-based 'what is fact'.

You are strawmanning.
What I claimed as 'what is fact' is based on reality, i.e. verifiable and justifiable based on empirical evidences within a credible FSK [of near equivalence to the scientific FSK].
You've been suckered by a trendy relativisation of what we call truth which was fashionable around sixty years ago. But mistaking what we say about things for the way things are is an ancient and persistent delusion.
You are referring to yourself!
My definition and use of 'what is fact' is attuned to reality and that its use produce positive results for humanity as it has been and will continue to enable greater utility in the future.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Wed May 18, 2022 6:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Dictionaries' Meanings of 'Fact' are Kid's Stuff

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Meaning of 'what is fact' from 13 Dictionaries;

a thing that is known or proved to be true.
"he ignores some historical and economic facts"
Google Dictionary

something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information:
No decision will be made until we know all the facts.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... glish/fact

: something that has actual existence
space exploration is now a fact
b: an actual occurrence
prove the fact of damage
: the quality of being actual:
ACTUALITY a question of fact hinges on evidence
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact

something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your fears have no basis in fact.
something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
Law. Often facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.
Compare question of fact, question of law.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fact

When you refer to something as a fact or as fact, you mean that you think it is true or correct.
...a statement of verifiable historical fact.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... glish/fact

You can't argue with facts: a fact is something proven to be true. It's important to distinguish between fact and fiction.

A thing that is known or proved to be true.
‘he ignores some historical and economic facts’
1. 1.1factsInformation used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
‘even the most inventive journalism peters out without facts, and in this case there were no facts’
2. 1.2Law mass noun The truth about events as opposed to interpretation.
‘there was a question of fact as to whether they had received the letter’
https://www.lexico.com/definition/fact

a thing that is known to be true, especially when it can be proved
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries. ... glish/fact

Knowledge or information based on real occurrences.
An account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
A thing that has actually happened or that is really true; thing that has been or is.
The state of things as they are; reality; actuality; truth.
Fact as distinct from fancy.
Something that exists or has happened; an irreducible element of real existence or occurrence.
An objective consensus on a fundamental reality that has been agreed upon by a substantial number of people.
There is no doubting the fact that the Earth orbits the Sun.
The definition of a fact is something that is true or something that has occurred or has been proven correct.
An example of a fact is that the world is round.
https://www.yourdictionary.com/fact

something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence
a true piece of information
https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/fact

a piece of true information
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dic ... itish/fact

1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences:
an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2. a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
4. Law A conclusion drawn by a judge or jury from the evidence in a case: a finding of fact.
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/fact

1. Something actual as opposed to invented. quotations ▼
In this story, the Gettysburg Address is a fact, but the rest is fiction.
2. Something which is real.
Gravity is a fact, not a theory.
3. Something concrete used as a basis for further interpretation.
Let's look at the facts of the case before deciding.
4. An objective consensus on a fundamental reality that has been agreed upon by a substantial number of experts.
There is no doubting the fact that the Earth orbits the Sun.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fact
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 12247
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Dictionaries' Meanings of 'Fact' are Kid's Stuff

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

The above is not something new;

I have raised the following threads to expose your 'what is fact' is kindergarten stuff and delusional; [no link for all but it can easily be searched in this forum]
  • What is a Fact?
    viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29486

    Definition of Fact – Analytic -Dictionary Def
    viewtopic.php?p=506235#p506235

    'States of Affairs" [Analytic] [Moral].

    Reality and Facts Emerged Spontaneously

    There are No Fact-in-Itself

    The US Dollar is a fact. Analogous to Moral Fact

    Peter Holmes & Delusional Facts

    Linguistic Facts versus Scientific and Other Facts

    The "What-is" of Color, Sound, Heat & Cold are Facts?

    Do Unconditional Facts Exist?

    Fact is not Value but Value-of-Fact is Fact.

    Confusion on Definition of Fact

    Peter's 'Fact' is a Contradiction

    Peter's vs VA's 'What is Fact'

    Fact is What We English Speakers said It Is?
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