What is Morality?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Veritas Aequitas
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What is Morality?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

When it comes to a discussion of Morality, posters are speaking pass each other because different people has their own definition of Morality. Besides the term Morality and Ethics are often conflated as the same thing.
Since there is no progress in most discussions of re Morality or Ethics, I suggest we must establish acceptable definitions of 'what is morality' and 'what is Ethics'. Note 'suggest' not 'insist'.

I wrote;
viewtopic.php?p=572240#p572240
  • The usual misunderstandings and never ending disagreements that is produced in threads on 'Morality' is people jumped into the discussion without defining the critical terms involved, e.g.
    1. What is Morality vs Ethics vs Virtue.
    2. What is reality
    3. What is a fact
    4. What is relativity
    5. What is objectivity vs subjectivity
    6. Time and phase of evolution involved
In this OP, I will attempt to establish the effective definition for 'Ethics' and 'Morality' with 'virtue' as not totally within Ethics & Morality.


What is Ethics?
Here is a good start to define what is Ethics from its etymological origins;
The English word ethics is derived from the Ancient Greek word ēthikós (ἠθικός), meaning "relating to one's character", which itself comes from the root word êthos (ἦθος) meaning "character, moral nature".[5]
This word was transferred into Latin as ethica and then into French as éthique, from which it was transferred into English.

Rushworth Kidder states that "standard definitions of ethics have typically included such phrases as 'the science of the ideal human character' or 'the science of moral duty'".[6] Richard William Paul and Linda Elder define ethics as "a set of concepts and principles that guide us in determining what behavior helps or harms sentient creatures".[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics#Defining_ethics
For a start, I propose the definition of 'What is Ethics?" to be in a wider sense;
ethics as "a set of concepts, principles, methodology, strategies that guide us in determining what behavior helps or harms humans to ensure the preservation of the species".
Ethics is solely applicable to humans only and extended to non-humans only where necessary to achieve its main purpose.

From the wider sense of Ethics, we narrow it to two aspects, i.e. the Pure and Applied, as;
  • 1. Pure - Morality
    2. Applied -Ethics as practical
What is Morality - Pure?
Morality is the Pure aspect in contrast to the Applied aspect just like Pure Mathematics and Applied Mathematics.
As such with Morality [Pure], the task is to establish fundamental principles and concepts as maxims [or objective standards] to guide practical ethics.
To do this, we need to verify and justify moral facts as a matter of fact represented by physical referents comprising neural correlates within the brain and body.
These objective moral facts are to be established ONLY as guides for moral progress and should NEVER be used as rules to be imposed on individuals.


What is Ethics - Applied?
Applied Ethics is a subset of Ethics-in-General.
Applied Ethics will involved establishing concepts, principles, models, systems, methodology, strategies that guide the individuals or groups in striving towards the objective moral standards on a continuous improvement basis.

What is Virtue?
While some aspects of virtue can be considered within the realm of morality and ethics, not all virtues qualify as moral and ethical elements.

Virtue is contrasted with Vice;
A vice is a practice, behaviour, or habit generally considered immoral, sinful, criminal, rude, taboo, depraved, degrading, deviant or perverted in the associated society. In more minor usage, vice can refer to a fault, a negative character trait, a defect, an infirmity, or a bad or unhealthy habit.
Vices are usually associated with a transgression in a person's character or temperament rather than their morality.[1]
Synonyms for vice include fault, sin, depravity, iniquity, wickedness, and corruption.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice
The ancient Romans used the Latin word virtus (derived from vir, their word for man) to refer to all of the "excellent qualities of men, including physical strength, valorous conduct, and moral rectitude." The French words vertu and virtu came from this Latin root. In the 13th century, the word virtue was "borrowed into English".[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue#Etymology
Since "virtue" has only very partial moral and ethical elements, I would exclude virtue from Ethical and Morality except where it is explicitly and qualified to be related to Ethics and Morality.

The above is merely a suggestion to avoid arguing pass each other.
The point is when anyone insist on the definition without consensus with the other party, it will end up a 'till the cows come home' sort of a never ending discussion.

Views.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

It's odd, you normally like to quote a dictionary or Wikipedia when you do this. It's kind of an obsession you have.



Why no wiki link for this one? Is there an essential ingredient missing from your cake?
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Note how you abandoned thread when I asked...
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 11:03 am It's odd, you normally like to quote a dictionary or Wikipedia when you do this. It's kind of an obsession you have.



Why no wiki link for this one? Is there an essential ingredient missing from your cake?
But in some other thread, here you are going through a shit ton of dictionary defs that you hope will suit you purpose
Peter Holmes wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:00 am Here are some dictionary definitions.

Fact Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact

Kids Definition of fact ... 1 : something that really exists or has occurred

FACT | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... glish/fact

Meaning of fact in English ... something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists

Fact Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fact
So I ask again, why is morality the topic where you insist on providing a definition, but don't dare invoke any dictionary or wiki?
Iwannaplato
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:56 am m the wider sense of Ethics, we narrow it to two aspects, i.e. the Pure and Applied, as;
  • 1. Pure - Morality
    2. Applied -Ethics as practical
What is Morality - Pure?
Morality is the Pure aspect in contrast to the Applied aspect just like Pure Mathematics and Applied Mathematics.
As such with Morality [Pure], the task is to establish fundamental principles and concepts as maxims [or objective standards] to guide practical ethics.
To do this, we need to verify and justify moral facts as a matter of fact represented by physical referents comprising neural correlates within the brain and body.
These objective moral facts are to be established ONLY as guides for moral progress and should NEVER be used as rules to be imposed on individuals.
So, how do we decide which functions/facets of the brain, or even 'parts of the brain' to develop and which facets of the brain to not conscously develop but just let develop as they will via unplanned experiences (unplanned in relation to the function of that region or moduel or facet of the brain?
CHNOPS
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by CHNOPS »

Ethics is just the study of Moral.

The important thing, then, is understand what Moral is.

Moral is the knowledge of what is Good and Bad.

So, what is Good and what is Bad?

That last question is what u need to think.

Thinking about the others definitions is just a waste of time.

Here are a lot of users that are too complex to understand the real philosophy.

Think like a cientist.

Simplify.

Tell me, in a simple way, what you think Good or Bad is?
DPMartin
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by DPMartin »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:56 am When it comes to a discussion of Morality, posters are speaking pass each other because different people has their own definition of Morality. Besides the term Morality and Ethics are often conflated as the same thing.
Since there is no progress in most discussions of re Morality or Ethics, I suggest we must establish acceptable definitions of 'what is morality' and 'what is Ethics'. Note 'suggest' not 'insist'.

I wrote;
viewtopic.php?p=572240#p572240
  • The usual misunderstandings and never ending disagreements that is produced in threads on 'Morality' is people jumped into the discussion without defining the critical terms involved, e.g.
    1. What is Morality vs Ethics vs Virtue.
    2. What is reality
    3. What is a fact
    4. What is relativity
    5. What is objectivity vs subjectivity
    6. Time and phase of evolution involved
what time is dinner?

ah, these definitions have been established for thousands of years, what it seems you want to do like many on sites like these, is redefine those concepts.
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Sculptor
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by Sculptor »

Yet another Wiki dump by VA

Has it not occurred to him that we are all perfectly capable of copy and pasting Wikipedia.
It's not as if he has properly integrated the information, rather he has simply ignored the inconvenient bits to peddle his old chestnut.
Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What is Morality?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

CHNOPS wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 5:30 pm Ethics is just the study of Moral.

The important thing, then, is understand what Moral is.

Moral is the knowledge of what is Good and Bad.

So, what is Good and what is Bad?

That last question is what u need to think.

Thinking about the others definitions is just a waste of time.

Here are a lot of users that are too complex to understand the real philosophy.

Think like a cientist.

Simplify.

Tell me, in a simple way, what you think Good or Bad is?
Morality is fundamentally about Good and Evil [bad is too limited].
Morality ultimately is more about actions than about knowledge.

In the context of Morality 'what is good' is 'what is not-evil'.

Evil is related to human acts that are net-negative to the well being of the individual[s] and therefrom to humanity and thus is a threat to the preservation of the human species.
Veritas Aequitas
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Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What is Morality?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

DPMartin wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 5:39 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:56 am When it comes to a discussion of Morality, posters are speaking pass each other because different people has their own definition of Morality. Besides the term Morality and Ethics are often conflated as the same thing.
Since there is no progress in most discussions of re Morality or Ethics, I suggest we must establish acceptable definitions of 'what is morality' and 'what is Ethics'. Note 'suggest' not 'insist'.

I wrote;
viewtopic.php?p=572240#p572240
  • The usual misunderstandings and never ending disagreements that is produced in threads on 'Morality' is people jumped into the discussion without defining the critical terms involved, e.g.
    1. What is Morality vs Ethics vs Virtue.
    2. What is reality
    3. What is a fact
    4. What is relativity
    5. What is objectivity vs subjectivity
    6. Time and phase of evolution involved
what time is dinner?

ah, these definitions have been established for thousands of years, what it seems you want to do like many on sites like these, is redefine those concepts.
???
Are you writing from your 'heaven'.

Fact is the reality that we are now facing more and more terrible evils* despite the above definitions.
* to the possibility of the extermination of the human species via WMDs by humans.

As such we need to review the existing definitions which is a very common thing to do in alignment with the progress of humanity.

Can't you see there is so much conflation and confusion with the definition of what is morality, ethics, virtue?
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:00 pm Note how you abandoned thread when I asked...
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 11:03 am It's odd, you normally like to quote a dictionary or Wikipedia when you do this. It's kind of an obsession you have.
Why no wiki link for this one? Is there an essential ingredient missing from your cake?
But in some other thread, here you are going through a shit ton of dictionary defs that you hope will suit you purpose
Because of you are very "violent" with words, I have put you in my 'ignore list' long time ago.

I started to respond to some your posts lately because it seem you have improved, but alas it is difficult for a leopard to change its spots. This is final for me and I will NEVER respond to your posts EVER!

Suggest you seek help since you are so easily pricked merely from words that don't meet your bias expectations.
Besides you are only poisoning yourself with cortisol when you are so easily provoked with mere words.
The main reason is you lack substance thus whatever I presented as realistic and rational threatened your shallow grip of knowledge at the subconscious level.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 5:00 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:00 pm Note how you abandoned thread when I asked...
FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 11:03 am It's odd, you normally like to quote a dictionary or Wikipedia when you do this. It's kind of an obsession you have.
Why no wiki link for this one? Is there an essential ingredient missing from your cake?
But in some other thread, here you are going through a shit ton of dictionary defs that you hope will suit you purpose
Because of you are very "violent" with words, I have put you in my 'ignore list' long time ago.
Obviously I've worked out what you are actually responding to. It was a pretty obvious observation and everybody else has already made the same one.

Your attempt to define morality without using moral terms such as good, bad, right wrong are of course a non-starter viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34877 and tantrums won't change that.
DPMartin
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by DPMartin »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:42 am
DPMartin wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 5:39 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:56 am When it comes to a discussion of Morality, posters are speaking pass each other because different people has their own definition of Morality. Besides the term Morality and Ethics are often conflated as the same thing.
Since there is no progress in most discussions of re Morality or Ethics, I suggest we must establish acceptable definitions of 'what is morality' and 'what is Ethics'. Note 'suggest' not 'insist'.

I wrote;
viewtopic.php?p=572240#p572240
  • The usual misunderstandings and never ending disagreements that is produced in threads on 'Morality' is people jumped into the discussion without defining the critical terms involved, e.g.
    1. What is Morality vs Ethics vs Virtue.
    2. What is reality
    3. What is a fact
    4. What is relativity
    5. What is objectivity vs subjectivity
    6. Time and phase of evolution involved
what time is dinner?

ah, these definitions have been established for thousands of years, what it seems you want to do like many on sites like these, is redefine those concepts.
???
Are you writing from your 'heaven'.

Fact is the reality that we are now facing more and more terrible evils* despite the above definitions.
* to the possibility of the extermination of the human species via WMDs by humans.

As such we need to review the existing definitions which is a very common thing to do in alignment with the progress of humanity.

Can't you see there is so much conflation and confusion with the definition of what is morality, ethics, virtue?
humans corrupt anything to conform to their own ways. again, that's been going on for thousands of years, just seek the truth, man can't change the truth, only what he wants to see and believe about it.

and what morality is is morals are simply the agreements between men for a peaceful coexistence.
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bahman
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by bahman »

First, you need to define good, evil, right, and wrong. The morality is then to choose and do right.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by FlashDangerpants »

bahman wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:43 pm First, you need to define good, evil, right, and wrong. The morality is then to choose and do right.
So trying to define morality and explicitly not even mention good or bad or right or wrong (although weirdly, still using the word evil for some reason- just none of those others) would be a non-starter then.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is Morality?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

DPMartin wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:00 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:42 am
DPMartin wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 5:39 pm

what time is dinner?

ah, these definitions have been established for thousands of years, what it seems you want to do like many on sites like these, is redefine those concepts.
???
Are you writing from your 'heaven'.

Fact is the reality that we are now facing more and more terrible evils* despite the above definitions.
* to the possibility of the extermination of the human species via WMDs by humans.

As such we need to review the existing definitions which is a very common thing to do in alignment with the progress of humanity.

Can't you see there is so much conflation and confusion with the definition of what is morality, ethics, virtue?
humans corrupt anything to conform to their own ways. again, that's been going on for thousands of years, just seek the truth, man can't change the truth, only what he wants to see and believe about it.
It is very apparent there are still loads of violence going on around the world and it seems to get worse.

However if you research and think rationally, you will note the truth that there is a trend of improvement in violence and evil acts from the "dog eat dog world" of 200,000 years ago to the present.

Don't be trapped in narrow truths.
Suggest you read this;
The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined - Steven Pinker
https://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Ou ... 0143122010
and what morality is is morals are simply the agreements between men for a peaceful coexistence.
Men has been agreeing to peace treaties and pacts, but that is a legal issue not of morality.
There had been no significant progress with peace treaties and pacts.

Morality is what I had been and mentioned in the OP plus what proposed above in the OP.
Point is morality for peace has to effected at the level of the neurons in the brain.
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