Logic is based on Half-Truths

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Veritas Aequitas
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Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

When one it too focused on logic, one merely relying on half-truths because all the variables in logic has to be universals and not particulars with their specific realistic properties.

As I had often quoted Kant,
"the advantage of logic is merely due to its limitations"
"Kant in CPR" wrote:That Logic should have been thus successful is an advantage which it owes entirely to its Limitations, whereby it is justified in abstracting indeed, it is under obligation to do so from all Objects of Knowledge and their differences, leaving the Understanding nothing to deal with save itself and its Form.

But for Reason to enter on the sure path of Science is, of course, much more difficult, since it has to deal not with itself alone but also with Objects.

Logic, therefore, as a propaedeutic, forms, as it were, only the vestibule of the sciences; and when we are concerned with specific Modes of Knowledge, while Logic is indeed presupposed in any critical estimate of them, yet for the actual acquiring of them {knowledge} we have to look to the sciences properly so called, that is, to the Objective Sciences.
CPR -Bix
Thus no matter how solid is the logical argument the conclusion is fundamentally a half-truth.

Agree / disagree??
Skepdick
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by Skepdick »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:18 am When one it too focused on logic, one merely relying on half-truths because all the variables in logic has to be universals and not particulars with their specific realistic properties.

As I had often quoted Kant,
"the advantage of logic is merely due to its limitations"
"Kant in CPR" wrote:That Logic should have been thus successful is an advantage which it owes entirely to its Limitations, whereby it is justified in abstracting indeed, it is under obligation to do so from all Objects of Knowledge and their differences, leaving the Understanding nothing to deal with save itself and its Form.

But for Reason to enter on the sure path of Science is, of course, much more difficult, since it has to deal not with itself alone but also with Objects.

Logic, therefore, as a propaedeutic, forms, as it were, only the vestibule of the sciences; and when we are concerned with specific Modes of Knowledge, while Logic is indeed presupposed in any critical estimate of them, yet for the actual acquiring of them {knowledge} we have to look to the sciences properly so called, that is, to the Objective Sciences.
CPR -Bix
Thus no matter how solid is the logical argument the conclusion is fundamentally a half-truth.

Agree / disagree??
It's obviously and trivialy true.

Logic is just rule-following. If adhered to logic curtails degrees of freedom - no different to morals.
In so far as one freely chooses which rules to follow using any particular logic amounts to self-discipline.

The question is: Who designs the rules; and why?
Iwannaplato
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:18 am When one it too focused on logic, one merely relying on half-truths because all the variables in logic has to be universals and not particulars with their specific realistic properties.

As I had often quoted Kant,
"the advantage of logic is merely due to its limitations"
"Kant in CPR" wrote:That Logic should have been thus successful is an advantage which it owes entirely to its Limitations, whereby it is justified in abstracting indeed, it is under obligation to do so from all Objects of Knowledge and their differences, leaving the Understanding nothing to deal with save itself and its Form.

But for Reason to enter on the sure path of Science is, of course, much more difficult, since it has to deal not with itself alone but also with Objects.

Logic, therefore, as a propaedeutic, forms, as it were, only the vestibule of the sciences; and when we are concerned with specific Modes of Knowledge, while Logic is indeed presupposed in any critical estimate of them, yet for the actual acquiring of them {knowledge} we have to look to the sciences properly so called, that is, to the Objective Sciences.
CPR -Bix
Thus no matter how solid is the logical argument the conclusion is fundamentally a half-truth.
Given that this post is a logical argument, dealing at the universal level, the conclusion is a half-truth.
But....
it gets even more interesting. Most arguments are not just one syllogism or line of deduction. There are several, such as the argument in this post. So, each of those logical subarguments are half truths. Here we are not dealing with a single argument, like
Socrates is a man,
all men are mortal
Therefore Socractes....well you know the rest.

There are several sub-arguments. Each of which, if Veritas is correct, is fundamentally a half-truth.

If your FINAL conclusion is drawn from several subarguments, all logic based, then the conclusion would have to be less than a half truth.

Then of course there is inductive logic and that nowhere is Kant coming up with a percentage of truth, but is in fact talking about the areas of knowledge and their differences.

But I found it more fun to accept the conclusion and look at the implications.

So,
Thus no matter how solid is the logical argument the conclusion is fundamentally a half-truth.
is at best a half truth if not worse.
CHNOPS
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by CHNOPS »

Just learn Axioms in Math.
Skepdick
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by Skepdick »

CHNOPS wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 4:27 pm Just learn Axioms in Math.
Reverse Mathematicians disagree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_mathematics
CHNOPS
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by CHNOPS »

You can start from the blocks and finish in the house, or start from the house and find the blocks.

We used some technology that year after we learned the equations that explains that technology.

While we dont understand the first axioms of logic or geometry (depending on what you believe about the origin of universe), we will be going back and end over and over.

The problem is that for all theorems you can think of, there are 2 diferents axioms that explain that theorem.

Is a limit of Logic and Knowledge.

So, you can reverse theorems and find axioms, but if you find one, then, there is other axiom that is the same but 180º oposite.

What do we do then?

We BELIEVE in one, and create the theorems starting with that.
trokanmariel
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by trokanmariel »

The universe, of the partnership, between political ramifications for theology through text exposure creating for text the metaphor database as demonic block, and philosophy units as atoms being moral providers of capitalism to theology's trade of socialism cynicism units, is set to replace another universe, by the Right-wing Master; this other universe, is The Database (supported by sunlight's data storage of theology's supernatural algebra):

Uniform stability, of analyst, as non-condescension status to harm by surroundings to analyst, is the Right-wing Master's collection, through his Physics Alliance Network, of the partnership between typing is permission for empathy from Angela Bennett (The Net) and eating is freedom (which, incidentally, is a carrier as tear shape, of the partnership between loyalty to past food and food as safe creator of ideology, in which the partnership, is a manifestation of Heaven's deceased are computers being a rival to God's sex smoking);
The Database, is a juggle act, by the Right-wing Master (The Reason is what follows):

The abstract democracy network, is a socialism of support to all universe data being a socialism of support, to the metaphor blocks (the metaphor blocks being creators, of sport acting as a philosophical distributor for philosophy of the ideology exemption from humanity's concoction of reality physics story).

The purpose, of the Right-wing Master's replace of one universe for another:

It's so that Thomas Heath's ditch of Peek-A-Boo (God), as one theology man to woman computer story, can be replaced by Thomas Heath's Hate to Hate sex travel with Brittney Havers, to Havers' theology mansion
godelian
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by godelian »

It rather means that truth is highly contextual.

In mathematical logic:

T ⊢ s

It means that logic sentence s is provable in the context of the complete collection of its premises, i.e. theory T.

Furthermore, the notions of provability and truth are divorced from each other.

M ⊨ s

The symbol ⊨ means that logic sentence s is true in a particular universe ("model") of theory T. Proposition s may however not be true in all interpretations ("models") of the construction logic T of its universe (interpretation).

Except for the simplest systems, it is impossible to prevent construction logic T from constructing more than one universe (interpretation).

Truth is a notion attached to a particular interpretation (universe) which is in turn attached to a collection of premises.

Therefore, there is no absolute truth in mathematics. Truth is always relative to a multilayered structure.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

godelian wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:26 am It rather means that truth is highly contextual.

In mathematical logic:

T ⊢ s

It means that logic sentence s is provable in the context of the complete collection of its premises, i.e. theory T.

Furthermore, the notions of provability and truth are divorced from each other.

M ⊨ s

The symbol ⊨ means that logic sentence s is true in a particular universe ("model") of theory T. Proposition s may however not be true in all interpretations ("models") of the construction logic T of its universe (interpretation).

Except for the simplest systems, it is impossible to prevent construction logic T from constructing more than one universe (interpretation).

Truth is a notion attached to a particular interpretation (universe) which is in turn attached to a collection of premises.

Therefore, there is no absolute truth in mathematics. Truth is always relative to a multilayered structure.
Agree.
Then you could agree to,
All facts, truths, knowledge are conditioned to a specific Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK].
The most credible truth are scientific [also mathematical] facts from the scientific FSK.

In relation to morality;
Where a moral FSK is justified to be as credible as the scientific FSK,
there are credible moral facts, truths, and knowledge from the moral FSK.
godelian
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by godelian »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:21 am All facts, truths, knowledge are conditioned to a specific Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK].
Yes, agreed.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:21 am The most credible truth are scientific [also mathematical] facts from the scientific FSK.
Concerning science, we don't know the construction logic of the physical universe. Therefore, scientific propositions are merely related to a correspondentist and probabilistic notion of truth. They are much weaker than the foundationalist-coherentist notion of truth in mathematics.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:21 am In relation to morality;
Where a moral FSK is justified to be as credible as the scientific FSK,
there are credible moral facts, truths, and knowledge from the moral FSK.
A moral theory can actually be a legitimate foundationalist-coherentist system.
So, yes, a moral theory may have the same epistemology as a mathematical formal system.
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Sculptor
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by Sculptor »

This is a massive misunderstanding of Logic.

Logic offers truths, it is not based on them, nor does it rely on them.
The strength of all logical "truths", though, relies wholly on the strength of the premises upon which they are founded.
But logic is only a methodology; neither truth nor false.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:21 pm This is a massive misunderstanding of Logic.

Logic offers truths, it is not based on them, nor does it rely on them.
The strength of all logical "truths", though, relies wholly on the strength of the premises upon which they are founded.
But logic is only a methodology; neither truth nor false.
the resuilt of that is that echnically, nothing stops Vulva Armpit and Skepdick from creating their own private logics. They become the metaphorical child sitting in his sandpit organising cat turds with full logical authority.

So Skepdick likes to trot out a python game where he sets the equality operator to say False, and then he gets (A == A) to return False. Under normal logics as applied by the totality of humanity that isn't Skepdick.... this is called a lie, but within Skepdick's sandbox, sure, it's true. A truth that extends only as far as the one human being who is prepared to accept truths from that private logic. For everyone else, it remains bullshit.

Volatile Arsebiscuits does the same broad thing, he has some homebrew logic that only he understands whereby it makes complete sense to have a structure in the brain that is a "correlate of the oughtness" of something or other, and somehow that makes one oughtness a scientific unit of measurement. The sheer absurdity of that is why he launched this risible thread, hoping that by degrading logic itslef he could get away with illogical shit but somehow still gain the benefits of saying "logic dictates that...". Within his private logic, fuck it, allow it, whatever quus bullshit he likes can happen as long as he is organising the cat turds within the playpen.

They can do these private logics as much and as often as they like, but a private logic is just as useful as a private language, and these fatuous idiots are the proof or the demonstration or just sufficient evidence of this truth.
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Sculptor
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by Sculptor »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:48 pm
Sculptor wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:21 pm This is a massive misunderstanding of Logic.

Logic offers truths, it is not based on them, nor does it rely on them.
The strength of all logical "truths", though, relies wholly on the strength of the premises upon which they are founded.
But logic is only a methodology; neither truth nor false.
the resuilt of that is that echnically, nothing stops Vulva Armpit and Skepdick from creating their own private logics. They become the metaphorical child sitting in his sandpit organising cat turds with full logical authority.

So Skepdick likes to trot out a python game where he sets the equality operator to say False, and then he gets (A == A) to return False. Under normal logics as applied by the totality of humanity that isn't Skepdick.... this is called a lie, but within Skepdick's sandbox, sure, it's true. A truth that extends only as far as the one human being who is prepared to accept truths from that private logic. For everyone else, it remains bullshit.

Volatile Arsebiscuits does the same broad thing, he has some homebrew logic that only he understands whereby it makes complete sense to have a structure in the brain that is a "correlate of the oughtness" of something or other, and somehow that makes one oughtness a scientific unit of measurement. The sheer absurdity of that is why he launched this risible thread, hoping that by degrading logic itslef he could get away with illogical shit but somehow still gain the benefits of saying "logic dictates that...". Within his private logic, fuck it, allow it, whatever quus bullshit he likes can happen as long as he is organising the cat turds within the playpen.

They can do these private logics as much and as often as they like, but a private logic is just as useful as a private language, and these fatuous idiots are the proof or the demonstration or just sufficient evidence of this truth.
Indeed Vaginal Atrophy never disappoints, he is unwavering in his ability to make a joke of himself.

And what is particularly amusing is that his quote from Kant does not even support what Vestigial Apperception claims, in any sense.
Last edited by Sculptor on Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bobmax
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by bobmax »

I agree.
The limits of logic are its very strength: they allow rational thinking.

The principle of identity is indispensable for thinking.
A = A

Without holding this principle firmly, no definite thought would be possible, we would fall into chaos.
However, this is the very limit of logical thinking.

A limit already highlighted by Zeno among others with his paradoxes.
Which certainly did not deny the movement, but instead questioned that A = A.

A = A is a negation.
In fact it denies that A is B, C, D, ... anything except A.

However, A = A should also be denied.

In fact, God, that is Being, is the negation of the negation.
Iwannaplato
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Re: Logic is based on Half-Truths

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 8:18 am Agree / disagree??
There were a variety of kinds of responses. He had no interest in them.
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