P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

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Skepdick
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Skepdick »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 10:10 am That's a misleading half truth.
You are treating that as an actual measurement but you have no quantity of evil to measure.
You cannot have an evil content that is > 49% but < 51%.
So saying "50% evil" works as a colloquialism only.
But you want to claim it as a scientific statement, and that's just stupid.
Then how come you are quantizing/measuring all the stuff that you are quantizing/measuring ?!?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantizat ... rocessing)
Quantization, in mathematics and digital signal processing, is the process of mapping input values from a large set (often a continuous set) to output values in a (countable) smaller set, often with a finite number of elements.
You are mapping a continuous entity (language, truth, reality, etc) into binary categories. You are DOING quantization.

Misleading halt truth vs non-misleading half truth.
Actual measurement vs non-actual measurement.
Scientific statement vs non-scientific statement.
A stupid statement vs non-stupid statement.

Every time you express an adjective you are DOING quantization. You are DOING measurement.
popeye1945
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by popeye1945 »

Truth is biological experience right or wrong.
Advocate
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Advocate »

[quote=popeye1945 post_id=572003 time=1652234648 user_id=21999]
Truth is biological experience right or wrong.
[/quote]

Truth can be understood in relation to biological experience, but that's a category error.
popeye1945
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by popeye1945 »

Advocate wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:42 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:04 am Truth is biological experience right or wrong.
Truth can be understood in relation to biological experience, but that's a category error.
Advocate,

Explain if you would.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 5:29 am
Advocate wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:42 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:04 am Truth is biological experience right or wrong.
Truth can be understood in relation to biological experience, but that's a category error.
Advocate,
Explain if you would.
"Truth can be understood in relation to biological experience"
possible but that is too loose a statement.

What is truth or fact must be conditioned to a specific framework and system of knowledge [FSK] which is fundamentally entangled with the human conditions.
What is scientific truths or facts must be conditioned to the Scientific FSK.

The next question is whether these conditioned truths or facts are credible [in what degrees] or false.

Scientific (& mathematical truths are the most credible at present. Legal facts, economics, social, political, fiscal, sports, etc. are of lesser credibility than scientific facts.
If not then that would be pseudo-science.

Therefore one cannot simply claim a fact or a statement is a true or false without any reference [implicit if not explicit] to its specific FSK.

The problem with Peter Holmes, et. al. is they will not or are unable even to qualify on what FSK or grounds their facts and truths are grounded upon. Their only claim of what is fact is what we English Speakers said 'what a fact is.' :shock:
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Advocate »

[quote=popeye1945 post_id=572010 time=1652243371 user_id=21999]
[quote=Advocate post_id=572004 time=1652236932 user_id=15238]
[quote=popeye1945 post_id=572003 time=1652234648 user_id=21999]
Truth is biological experience right or wrong.
[/quote]

Truth can be understood in relation to biological experience, but that's a category error.
[/quote]

Advocate,

Explain if you would.
[/quote]

The kinds of thing Truth is did not inherently require biology. Truth is an instance of reality - that which continuously validates. There's nothing about substrate dependence in the idea of Truth, nothing at all.
Peter Holmes
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Peter Holmes »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 5:44 am
popeye1945 wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 5:29 am
Advocate wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:42 am

Truth can be understood in relation to biological experience, but that's a category error.
Advocate,
Explain if you would.
"Truth can be understood in relation to biological experience"
possible but that is too loose a statement.

What is truth or fact must be conditioned to a specific framework and system of knowledge [FSK] which is fundamentally entangled with the human conditions.
What is scientific truths or facts must be conditioned to the Scientific FSK.

The next question is whether these conditioned truths or facts are credible [in what degrees] or false.

Scientific (& mathematical truths are the most credible at present. Legal facts, economics, social, political, fiscal, sports, etc. are of lesser credibility than scientific facts.
If not then that would be pseudo-science.

Therefore one cannot simply claim a fact or a statement is a true or false without any reference [implicit if not explicit] to its specific FSK.

The problem with Peter Holmes, et. al. is they will not or are unable even to qualify on what FSK or grounds their facts and truths are grounded upon. Their only claim of what is fact is what we English Speakers said 'what a fact is.' :shock:
1 There is no foundation, for what we say, beneath our linguistic practices.
2 What we call a fact is a feature of reality that is or was the case. That's how we use the word fact. Suck it up.
3 Whether what we call features of reality actually exist is an ontological question. The claim that they don't incurs a burden of proof, unmet so far, to my knowledge - so the claim is or seems irrational.
4 If what we call reality exists, it exists independently from any way it can be described. The claim that it doesn't incurs a burden of proof, unmet so far, to my knowledge - so the claim is or seems irrational.
5 Mistaking what we say about things (see 1) for the way things are is the original mistake in and of philosophy.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 5:44 am The problem with Peter Holmes, et. al. is they will not or are unable even to qualify on what FSK or grounds their facts and truths are grounded upon. Their only claim of what is fact is what we English Speakers said 'what a fact is.' :shock:
You have a weird and pointless obsession with these FSK things, and the only reason you have that at all is because you want to find a way to say something that is absurd under normal language terms but claim that everyone else in the world just doesn't understand what X is where X is any of the many things you've attempted to redefine with that silly stunt.

I don't need an FSK to know that mutually exclusive fact claims cannot be true at once. I can correctly say that any FSK you cook up which claims otherwise is specious, and that you are stupid for making the attempt.
Skepdick
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Skepdick »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:55 pm I can correctly say that any FSK you cook up which claims otherwise is specious, and that you are stupid for making the attempt.
What a peculiar claim. Yeah, you can say it - you can say anything you want to say. That's what freedom of expression entails.

But what makes you "correct" other than your attempt at self-flagilation?

There was a guy. Maybe you heard of him - Gödel. He pointed out that any sufficiently powerful system which can determine its own correctness is provably incorrect. Irony has its way with dumb philosophers.
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:55 pm I don't need an FSK to know that mutually exclusive fact claims cannot be true at once.
That is literally the entailment of choosing an FKS!

There's an FSK which permits mutually exclusive statements.
There's an FSK which forbids mutually exclusive statements.

If you haven't chosen one then it's pretty obvious that somebody chose it for you. Your education/brainwashing maybe.

Who knows?
Last edited by Skepdick on Wed May 11, 2022 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Skepdick wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:51 pm
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:55 pm I can correctly say that any FSK you cook up which claims otherwise is specious, and that you are stupid for making the attempt.
What a peculiar claim. Yeah, you can say it - you can say anything you want to say. That's what freedom of expression entails.

But what makes you "correct" other than your attempt at self-flagilation?

There was a guy. Maybe you heard of him - Gödel. He pointed out that any system which can determine its own correctness is provably incorrect. Irony has its way with dumb philosophers.
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 2:55 pm I don't need an FSK to know that mutually exclusive fact claims cannot be true at once.
That is literally the entailment of choosing an FKS!

There's an FSK which permits mutually exclusive statements.
There's an FSK which forbids mutually exclusive statements.

If you haven't chosen one then it's pretty obvious that somebody chose it for you. Your education/brainwashing maybe. Who knows.
The phrase provably incorrect only means anything if I am already right.

You are boring and stupid. Please re-apply for future attention next year.
Skepdick
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Skepdick »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:55 pm The phrase provably incorrect only means anything if I am already right.
No, it doesn't. The above is only true if you are peddling Classical Logic and the axiom of excluded middle. But you can't possibly be peddling Classical Logic, could you? An independent thinker and a genius such as yourseld doesn't need an FSK, right?!?
You can't possibly be DOING what your academic indoctrination is making you do - fall for dichotomies.

In an FSK where the "law" of excluded middle is rejected as an axiom something can be provably incorrect; or its correctness/incorrectness could be undecidable.

If the system remains silent on the issue of its own correctness - that's the end of it. Maybe it's correct - maybe it's incorrect. We can't prove it either way. As soon as the system asserts its own correctness then it can also prove falsehoods ala liar's paradox.

Contradictory completeness; or non-contradictory consistency - choose one.
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:55 pm You are boring and stupid. Please re-apply for future attention next year.
The guy trying to assert himself "correct" and "right" is telling me that I am looking for attention?

Shame. You reek of desperation. Also - you are a dumb c.u.n.t, which expresses a statement of fact not a judgment.
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by FlashDangerpants »

Skepdick wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 3:57 pm Also - you are a dumb c.u.n.t, which expresses a statement of fact not a judgment.
That I am a total cunt is not even really in dispute.
However you are a pissy little troll and I have no real interest in you.
You may re-apply for attention in 2024.
Skepdick
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Skepdick »

FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:27 pm That I am a total cunt is not even really in dispute.
Glad we could agree on something!
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:27 pm However you are a pissy little troll and I have no real interest in you.
Troll? Naah! I am just using your normatives against you.

You could say that I am way more competent at acting like a cunt than you are at being one.
FlashDangerpants wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 4:27 pm You may re-apply for attention in 2024.
I did suggest last time, but for some reason you ignored me - keep me blocked for a litte longer, please. 2124 perhaps?

That way I can simply keep pointing out that you are a fucking idiot - I far prefer talking about you than to you.

Unless, of course, you are projecting your desire for my attention onto me?
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by Eodnhoj7 »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 5:54 am
Eodnhoj7 wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:11 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 6:10 am
I agree, "there's no such thing as absolute truth, ..."

If there is no absolute truth [or fact] then there is only conditional truth or fact.
What you failed here is you stop short of what are these conditional truths or facts conditioned upon?
This is why you have been cowardly avoiding despite my many requests that you state what your conditional truths or facts are conditioned upon.

All you could to was to throw dictionary definitions of 'what is fact' at me.
If that is the best you can do, then you have to accept what is fact as conditional fact is conditioned upon the specific dictionary you quoted or the specific FSK of that dictionary or dictionary in general.

But we know the purpose of etymology [dictionaries] is merely to represent what is the common usage of a word at present and over time, its intention is not to represent reality at all.

So far, you have cowardly avoided to explain what your conditional facts or truths are conditioned upon. If you cannot do so, then such facts or truths are baseless, groundless and delusional.
"there is only conditional truth or fact" is an absolute truth as conditionality contains only itself, ie other conditions, therefore referencing nothing.
I did not claim it is an absolute truth, "there is only conditional truth or fact" has to be entangled with humanity [how else?], thus it is a conditional truth.

Therefore it reference nothing, i.e. nothing absolute, so there are only conditional truth or fact.

Btw, you need to note there is absolutely-absolute [God] and conditional-absolute [absolute temperature, monarchy, etc.]
The fact that there is an entanglement is absolute.
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SpheresOfBalance
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Re: P_Holmes: There is NO Absolute Truth ..

Post by SpheresOfBalance »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 6:10 am
Peter Holmes wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 10:10 am If what you mean is that there's no such thing as absolute truth, ......
I agree, "there's no such thing as absolute truth, ..."

If there is no absolute truth [or fact] then there is only conditional truth or fact.
What you failed here is you stop short of what are these conditional truths or facts conditioned upon?
This is why you have been cowardly avoiding despite my many requests that you state what your conditional truths or facts are conditioned upon.

All you could to was to throw dictionary definitions of 'what is fact' at me.
If that is the best you can do, then you have to accept what is fact as conditional fact is conditioned upon the specific dictionary you quoted or the specific FSK of that dictionary or dictionary in general.

But we know the purpose of etymology [dictionaries] is merely to represent what is the common usage of a word at present and over time, its intention is not to represent reality at all.

So far, you have cowardly avoided to explain what your conditional facts or truths are conditioned upon. If you cannot do so, then such facts or truths are baseless, groundless and delusional.
Of course there's absolute truth.

absolute [ ab-suh-loot, ab-suh-loot ]

adjective
1) free from imperfection; complete; perfect

noun
1) something that is not dependent upon external conditions for existence or for its specific nature, size, etc. (opposed to relative).

truth [ trooth ]
noun, plural truths [troothz, trooths].
1) the true or actual state of a matter

Only humans can deny/change/corrupt truth, thus without human fabrication, truth is always absolute.
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