It is universally true, otherwise, people won't eventually come to the conclusion that rape is wrong.Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 4:32 pmNot universally true.bahman wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 3:42 pmIt is about likes or dislikes. No one like to be raped. Therefore, it is prohibited.Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 3:23 pm
For the moment yes.
And one day it is the woman's right to chose what to do with her own body in the matter of abortions and the next day it is illegal.
Your problem is that you are trying to project your personal moral values and trying to pretend they are universal.
They are NOT.
Moral realism is true
Re: Moral realism is true
- henry quirk
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Re: Moral realism is true
It carries color.But light does not have color.
How so? Joe is head over heels for Jane. She has bewitched him. All he thinks about morning, noon, and night is Jane. Mebbe Jane feels the same way about him. Mebbe not. Where's morality in this psycho-hormonal insanity?There is a moral issue.
Re: Moral realism is true
Re: Moral realism is true
It does not. Light is nothing more than electromagnetic waves. There is no color there. Color in fact is created inside your brain. It is a fact. If all part of your sensory system works fine but you have brain damage then you can not see.
Think of this situation, Joe falls in love with Jane as Jane falls in love with him too. They come together for a while until Jane falls in love with another guy. She decides to leave Joe in a desperate situation and have fun with the second guy. Does Jane is responsible for causing pain to Joe?henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 4:38 pmHow so? Joe is head over heels for Jane. She has bewitched him. All he thinks about morning, noon, and night is Jane. Mebbe Jane feels the same way about him. Mebbe not. Where's morality in this psycho-hormonal insanity?There is a moral issue.
Re: Moral realism is true
I know some people like to rape but that does not mean that they are allowed.
Re: Moral realism is true
- henry quirk
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Re: Moral realism is true
And color is frequency.Light is nothing more than electromagnetic waves.
If Jane and Joe had no covenant, and if she caused no physical harm, then -- even though she might be flighty bitch -- no, she's not morally responsible for Joe's woes.Does Jane is responsible for causing pain to Joe?
Re: Moral realism is true
Ok, I will buy that for sake of argument. Do you know that the light is gone once it hit the retina? All you have is the electrical current? What is electrical current? Moving electron? Does moving electron also have color?henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 10:06 pmAnd color is frequency.Light is nothing more than electromagnetic waves.
They were together and mental harm is made.henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 10:06 pmIf Jane and Joe had no covenant, and if she caused no physical harm, then -- even though she might be flighty bitch -- no, she's not morally responsible for Joe's woes.Does Jane is responsible for causing pain to Joe?
Re: Moral realism is true
Yes I understand this, and this is why I posed my clarifying question the way I did.Iwannaplato wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 7:25 amI believe, in this case, 'arguing against', means arguing against the existence of objective morals or moral facts. As opposed to arguing against abortion, say.
All one has to do is just define what ANY word or term means, and then if 'it' exists or not becomes KNOWN.
It is ALL VERY SIMPLE, REALLY.
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Re: Moral realism is true
Strawman!bahman wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 1:08 pmLike or dislike is not opinion.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 3:56 amHere is the more credible definition of what is fact which cannot be a personal subject fact.
I have also defined
- A fact is something that is true. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement by experiments or other means.
'a fact is always conditioned upon a specific framework and system of knowledge.
If you are relying on a personal framework, that is at best an opinion, or if you insist an opinionated-fact.
Note I stated "personal" framework.
Like or dislike within a personal framework is an opinion.
Like or dislike within a universal framework can be a fact but this must be verified with empirical evidence and philosophical reasoning.
No humans would like to be killed is a fundamental biological and psychological fact that is supported by empirical evidences. This is universal and thus a fact.
There may be people with suicidal tendencies and 'like' to commit suicide, but they are the abnormal ones due to neural defects.
- henry quirk
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Re: Moral realism is true
Oh, I don't deny apprehension involves a long and complex causal series of events, and that apprehending is dependent upon the condition of the eyes, of the optic nerve, and of the brain, upon the nature of the intervening medium, and so on, and that light, electricity, and biochemicals are involved. I simply say: the apple exists independent of me, and when I see, taste, smell, or heft the apple in my hand, what I'm seein', tastin', smellin', or heftin' is as it appears to be. I'm not creatin' a simulation in my head: I'm directly apprehending the apple as it is.
If Jane does a Bobbit on you, or steals your car, or cleans out your savings, or sells you to a trafficker, or drugs you, or ruins your reputation, or takes a piss on a formal covenant: she's committed a moral wrong...she's violated your person.They were together and mental harm is made.
She hurts your feelings: sorry, but no. she may be, as I say, a flighty bitch, but she's not bein' immoral, just mean.
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Re: Moral realism is true
Note:Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 4:32 pmNot universally true.bahman wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 3:42 pmIt is about likes or dislikes. No one like to be raped. Therefore, it is prohibited.Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 3:23 pm
For the moment yes.
And one day it is the woman's right to chose what to do with her own body in the matter of abortions and the next day it is illegal.
Your problem is that you are trying to project your personal moral values and trying to pretend they are universal.
They are NOT.
- Rape: to force someone to have sex when they are unwilling, using violence or threatening behaviour:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... glish/rape
As such the dislike [abhorrence, detest] of rape is wrong and is universal.
Some people may like violent sex agreeing to be beaten, slashed or even eaten, but there is 'willingness' thus not rape as defined.
That rape was not illegal is not directly a moral issue but rather that is a legal issue.
Rape is wrong universally is a moral fact that is supported by the physical neural connections within a person's brain that tantamount to the person disliking rape.
The trend of legal acts against rape since 500 years till the present is evidence of the unfoldment of the moral fact 'rape is wrong' within the brains of all humans.
The objective moral fact that rape is wrong is one evidence Moral Realism is true.
Re: Moral realism is true
No moral transgression is objectively right or wrong, since no moral objection is set in stone, subject to change historically, culturally, socially and contingent on circumstances enjoying the benefits of mitigation.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 3:34 amNote:Since rape is against a person's will it cannot be a matter of 'like'.
- Rape: to force someone to have sex when they are unwilling, using violence or threatening behaviour:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... glish/rape
As such the dislike [abhorrence, detest] of rape is wrong and is universal.
Some people may like violent sex agreeing to be beaten, slashed or even eaten, but there is 'willingness' thus not rape as defined.
That rape was not illegal is not directly a moral issue but rather that is a legal issue.
Rape is wrong universally is a moral fact that is supported by the physical neural connections within a person's brain that tantamount to the person disliking rape.
The trend of legal acts against rape since 500 years till the present is evidence of the unfoldment of the moral fact 'rape is wrong' within the brains of all humans.
The objective moral fact that rape is wrong is one evidence Moral Realism is true.
Re: Moral realism is true
Opinion: a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledgeVeritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 3:05 amStrawman!bahman wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 1:08 pmLike or dislike is not opinion.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 3:56 am
Here is the more credible definition of what is fact which cannot be a personal subject fact.
I have also defined
- A fact is something that is true. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability, that is whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement by experiments or other means.
'a fact is always conditioned upon a specific framework and system of knowledge.
If you are relying on a personal framework, that is at best an opinion, or if you insist an opinionated-fact.
Note I stated "personal" framework.
Like or dislike within a personal framework is an opinion.
Like or dislike within a universal framework can be a fact but this must be verified with empirical evidence and philosophical reasoning.
No humans would like to be killed is a fundamental biological and psychological fact that is supported by empirical evidences. This is universal and thus a fact.
There may be people with suicidal tendencies and 'like' to commit suicide, but they are the abnormal ones due to neural defects.
Re: Moral realism is true
What do you mean by directly? The light that comes from the apple is gone.henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 3:09 amOh, I don't deny apprehension involves a long and complex causal series of events, and that apprehending is dependent upon the condition of the eyes, of the optic nerve, and of the brain, upon the nature of the intervening medium, and so on, and that light, electricity, and biochemicals are involved. I simply say: the apple exists independent of me, and when I see, taste, smell, or heft the apple in my hand, what I'm seein', tastin', smellin', or heftin' is as it appears to be. I'm not creatin' a simulation in my head: I'm directly apprehending the apple as it is.