The rule of thumb

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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bahman
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:47 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:37 pm A park is a public place so we have to refer to consensus.
So, consensus can control what you do.
Yes.
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 12:47 pm
No one.
Well, consensus, which is a majority, generally, since the ones who want to play music and the ones who want to listen to birds, at least some of them, will not want others to control their experience. So, a majority and perhaps sometimes a plurality will decide what you do.
Ok.
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:09 am How about the boss/employee relationship? If we follow your rule of thumb, what does my boss get to decide about my clothes, actions, speech, facial expression, times of arrival or does he or she get to decide about others?
You have all rights.
So, you can show up when you want, wear what you want, choose your actions and so on at work?
[/quote]
You need to do the job well.
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:09 am
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:09 am Speed of driving?
This is the duty of science.
Science may indicate how dangerous each speed is, but humans will have to determine how we prioritize speed vs. convenience, etc. To be perfectly same all driving could be kept under 10mph. Science cannot give us our priorities, though it can inform our decisions. Further, on the practical side. police will then be enforcing controls on people's freedom.
No, it is the duty of science. Science can determine what is the safe speed by considering the casualty related to the max speed allowed.
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:09 am
You are not free to lie about others.
But pretty much any court system cannot really differentiate between what you cannot prove is true and what is false. So, you may be restricted from telling a truth you cannot prove. And then there is a lot of interpretation. So, there will be restrictions on free specch.
You are not free to lie about others.
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:09 am
The mother decides even if keeping the fetus put her life in danger.
But in my example it was more the other way. The fetus is dying. Medicine can keep it alive. Are we not overriding the naturl process of the fetus?
You have to keep the fetus alive if you could.
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 9:09 am
When you have mental health and are mature enough.
So, parents and others do get to tell children what to do until then.
Yes, until a certain age.
Iwannaplato
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:27 pm No, it is the duty of science. Science can determine what is the safe speed by considering the casualty related to the max speed allowed.
Well, as I said, then very slow will always better. 40mph will ALWAYS be worse than 30mph in terms of casualties. But every society takes risks, and increases casualities, by weighing in other factors, generally convenience of shorter duration trips and then probably delivery time for goods and services. Highways/motorways would be down to 10mph if based on just on casualties. Or lower, since 5, would perhaps have one death less in the US per year.

But in any case, soceity would generally be controlling you to protect others' dislikes and likes. in many circumstances.
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bahman
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 1:27 pm No, it is the duty of science. Science can determine what is the safe speed by considering the casualty related to the max speed allowed.
Well, as I said, then very slow will always better. 40mph will ALWAYS be worse than 30mph in terms of casualties. But every society takes risks, and increases casualities, by weighing in other factors, generally convenience of shorter duration trips and then probably delivery time for goods and services. Highways/motorways would be down to 10mph if based on just on casualties. Or lower, since 5, would perhaps have one death less in the US per year.

But in any case, soceity would generally be controlling you to protect others' dislikes and likes. in many circumstances.
I think one needs to perform a risk assessment to obtain the optimal speed.
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:01 pm I think one needs to perform a risk assessment to obtain the optimal speed.
Yes, I got that. But if you only focus on risks, you are going to meet incredible disliking from many people.
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bahman
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:08 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:01 pm I think one needs to perform a risk assessment to obtain the optimal speed.
Yes, I got that. But if you only focus on risks, you are going to meet incredible disliking from many people.
So you need to mix risk assessment with consensus to obtain a good speed.
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:23 pm So you need to mix risk assessment with consensus to obtain a good speed.
Great. And then this idea of consensus. It's very rare one can achieve that, especially at a societal level.
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bahman
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by bahman »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:55 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:23 pm So you need to mix risk assessment with consensus to obtain a good speed.
Great. And then this idea of consensus. It's very rare one can achieve that, especially at a societal level.
That is the only solution that comes to my mind.
Age
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by Age »

henry quirk wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:02 am
Age wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 4:21 amMaybe until you explain how, EXACTLY, hitch hiking is NEVER EVER a "good thing"
You refer, of course, to this...
henry quirk wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 1:54 am
Impenitent wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 1:45 am hitching a ride isn't a good thing anymore...

-Imp
it never was
...which was a throwaway line.

Hitchin' is bad idea becuz, as I believe, I've already said, the hitcher puts himself in a metal box with a stranger, a fast-movin' metal box that can't be exited without significant risk. The hitcher turns over his welfare to this stranger, who may not have his best interests in mind.

That's my view.

Now, I'm done defendin' throwaway lines.
How do we determine a so-called 'throwaway line' from a 'non throwaway line' of yours?

What does 'throwaway line' even mean to you?

And, does this metal box include planes and trains as well as motor vehicles?

If no, then why not?
Age
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by Age »

henry quirk wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 5:05 am
Age wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 4:24 am
henry quirk wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 7:56 pm

Tell me, age: what have I stolen?
Literally the 'property', which you say is "yours".
this is not an answer...it's an assertion...back it up with evidence
Who owns the land, which you say "is yours"?

Who did you get it from, EXACTLY?

Who did they get it from, EXACTLY?

And, who did they get it from, ET cetera?

If you want to claim that the 'land', which you claim is "your property", is NOT stolen, then what made the previously so-called 'transactions', morally, 'right'?
Age
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by Age »

The basis behind the principle that "bahman" and "Henry quirk" subscribe to here is correct and right, but the principle they claim to follow here has NEVER worked. As has AlREADY been PROVED TRUE. In Fact these two do NOT even follow this principle of theirs, themselves. This is because they can NOT.
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henry quirk
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by henry quirk »

Age wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:18 pmHow do we determine a so-called 'throwaway line' from a 'non throwaway line' of yours?
You mean how do you determine the difference. Nobody else seems to have a problem with it. And, no, I won't spend the next few thread pages schoolin' you on what is, for everyone else, easy-peasy. I'm sorry you're an autist, but it's not my job to handhold.
What does 'throwaway line' even mean to you?
One made without much investment, like a passin' comment about the weather.
And, does this metal box include planes and trains as well as motor vehicles?
Sure, and elevators too. I won't fly, take a train, and, like I said up-thread, I prefer the stairs.
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henry quirk
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by henry quirk »

Age wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 11:47 pmWho owns the land, which you say "is yours"?
I do. I paid the askin' price: it's mine. You dispute this? Explain.
Who did you get it from, EXACTLY?
From the fellow who owned it.
Who did they get it from, EXACTLY?
Hell if I know.
And, who did they get it from, ET cetera?
Ditto.
If you want to claim that the 'land', which you claim is "your property", is NOT stolen, then what made the previously so-called 'transactions', morally, 'right'?
I don't know that the pedigree of the property is on the up & up clear back to the first men who walked it. No doubt, at some point it was swindled away and stolen, etc. Long time back, skepdick (at least I think it was him) asked me the same question. I tell you what I told him: if someone believes they have a better or previous claim on my parcel, they're free to step up and make their claim. They need to prove they have a previous or better claim. Wangin' on a tribal drum and declarin' The Great Spirit sez so an't gonna cut it.

-----
The basis behind the principle that "bahman" and "Henry quirk" subscribe to here is correct and right, but *the principle they claim to follow here has NEVER worked. As has AlREADY been PROVED TRUE. In Fact **these two do NOT even follow this principle of theirs, themselves. ***This is because they can NOT.
*another unbacked assertion...where's your evidence?

**another unbacked assertion...where's your evidence?

***another unbacked assertion...where's your evidence?
Age
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by Age »

henry quirk wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 2:30 am
Age wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:18 pmHow do we determine a so-called 'throwaway line' from a 'non throwaway line' of yours?
You mean how do you determine the difference. Nobody else seems to have a problem with it.
If you say and BELIEVE SO.
henry quirk wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 2:30 am And, no, I won't spend the next few thread pages schoolin' you on what is, for everyone else, easy-peasy. I'm sorry you're an autist, but it's not my job to handhold.
WHY are you, or even would be, so-called 'sorry'?

Or, in other words, you are just INCAPABLE.
henry quirk wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 2:30 am
What does 'throwaway line' even mean to you?
One made without much investment, like a passin' comment about the weather.
WHY would you say some 'thing', especially in a philosophy forum, where you would not be that invested in backing up and supporting?
henry quirk wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 2:30 am
And, does this metal box include planes and trains as well as motor vehicles?
Sure, and elevators too. I won't fly, take a train, and, like I said up-thread, I prefer the stairs.
Sounds like you are a very worried, untrusting, and/or nervous person.

Which, ALSO, STILL does NOT back up NOR support YOUR CLAIM that hitch hiking is NEVER a 'good thing'.
Iwannaplato
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by Iwannaplato »

bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 4:18 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:55 pm
bahman wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:23 pm So you need to mix risk assessment with consensus to obtain a good speed.
Great. And then this idea of consensus. It's very rare one can achieve that, especially at a societal level.
That is the only solution that comes to my mind.
It gives a lot of power to, for example, mean people. The mean person can just say no to the vast majority's agreement. And of course more often you just have differing values. Consensus on abortion for example is not something coming soon.
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henry quirk
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Re: The rule of thumb

Post by henry quirk »

Sounds like you are a very worried, *untrusting, and/or nervous person.
*bingo
WHY would you say some 'thing', especially in a philosophy forum, where you would not be that invested in backing up and supporting?
I'm not a philo-machine, spittin' out a ticker-tape of philo-equations. I'm a guy indulgin' an interest, which includes hob-nobbin' with a buddy from time to time.
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