There are Moral Facts

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Iwannaplato
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Iwannaplato »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:50 am Today, there is recognition that objective moral facts do exist.
It is often a warning sign when arguments use the passive voice. 'Today there is recognition'. It makes it sound like we are dealing with some universal or objective authority, but if you put it in an active voice sentence the holes appear.
Here is one clue where moral facts are inherent within humanity;
The Moral Life of Babies
Yale Psychology Professor Paul Bloom finds the origins of morality in infants
Morality is not just something that people learn, argues Yale psychologist Paul Bloom: It is something we are all born with. At birth, babies are endowed with compassion, with empathy, with the beginnings of a sense of fairness. It is from these beginnings, he argues in his new book Just Babies, that adults develop their sense of right and wrong, their desire to do good — and, at times, their capacity to do terrible things.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... of-babies/
Your ideas on morality is very outdated which is likely to keep people in the dark ages.
You are not using 'moral fact' in the sense it is used in philosophy if you think that psychology professor is supporting the idea of moral facts. Because a human or even most humans have some innate/inborn moral sense, does not make that moral sense/tendency a moral fact. And notice that there is nothing in that article that says any particular position, moral position, is based on moral facts. Different values, morals, can develop out of the categories these infant urges to do good and not bad or to be fair. But fair, good, bad acts will be judged differently by different people, including infants. It would be funny to put the urges of babies up as moral facts, since anyone who has spent time taking care of a baby knows it's good they are not armed and have guns.

To have a moral fact, means that one can demonstrate that something is morally good, period. The professor is not arguing in favor of moral facts. He is arguing in favor of some aspects of people's moral positions NOT being dependent on experience. IOW he is against a tabula rasa idea of morals, that we only learn what is moral from others (parents, etc.).

He has not demonstrated, remotely, that some acts are objectively moral and some others are not.

And any claim that he has demonstrated the existence of moral facts would entail that the moral authority is infant social mammals. Why not a non-carnivore, like sheep infants? They would be much more likely to think that not killing is good than a carnivore infant.

A moral fact is not a conclusion within someone's FSK. It would say that some moral conclusions are wrong and some right period. To use 'moral fact' in the dependent contingent way you do is to use the word in a near useless idiosyncratic way.

By the way: I used the not killing example because it seemed like not killing being good was one of your moral facts.

It may turn out to be a fact that humans have innate moral tendencies. This does not make these tendencies facts. In fact, they might turn out to be counterproductive, even, let alone anyone being able to demonstrate they are objective morals.

And talk about subjectivity using babies innate categories, which produce all sorts of contradictory morals, in an appeal to authority.
DPMartin
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by DPMartin »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:50 am
There is no agreement re 'Thou Shall NOT KILL re the Ten Commandments.
There is only an agreement if one enter into a contract [covenant] to agree with it thus the need for compliance.

"Thou Shall not kill" is in the old testament, as such is not even binding on Christians.

Christians enter into a contract with Jesus and God where the binding terms are in the Gospels and not in the OT.
The OT for Christians is merely an appendix or for guidance only.

"Thou Shall not Kill" worded accordingly in modern form is enacted as severe criminal offence in all sovereign nations. This is a legal command not a moral thing.

I suggest you realign your bearing to the truths of the above points.
according to you which means nothing, but according to the info you say you know:

Exo_34:28  And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

therefore the law is a covenant which is an agreement. also Christians are bound to the covenant of God according to Paul:

Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 

Jesus fulfilled the law in the life He lives in the flesh, and the born again are to receive that life, therefore fulfillment of the law is paramount because its a part of the life a born again receives if that person is really born again.

and in case you don't know a contract is an agreement.


its apparent you really don't know what you're talking about
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

DPMartin wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:37 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:50 am
There is no agreement re 'Thou Shall NOT KILL re the Ten Commandments.
There is only an agreement if one enter into a contract [covenant] to agree with it thus the need for compliance.

"Thou Shall not kill" is in the old testament, as such is not even binding on Christians.

Christians enter into a contract with Jesus and God where the binding terms are in the Gospels and not in the OT.
The OT for Christians is merely an appendix or for guidance only.

"Thou Shall not Kill" worded accordingly in modern form is enacted as severe criminal offence in all sovereign nations. This is a legal command not a moral thing.

I suggest you realign your bearing to the truths of the above points.
according to you which means nothing, but according to the info you say you know:

Exo_34:28  And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

therefore the law is a covenant which is an agreement. also Christians are bound to the covenant of God according to Paul:

Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 

Jesus fulfilled the law in the life He lives in the flesh, and the born again are to receive that life, therefore fulfillment of the law is paramount because its a part of the life a born again receives if that person is really born again.

and in case you don't know a contract is an agreement.


its apparent you really don't know what you're talking about
Rather you are the ignorant one.

1. Yes a contract is an agreement between two or more parties.

2. A Christian is one who has entered into a contract [covenant] with God/Jesus.

3. Every contract must have a specific Terms of Contract. Hope you get this very clearly.

4. Since a Christian entered into a contract with Jesus/ God, the Terms of Contract in the case of a Christian are ONLY in the Gospels of Jesus and no where else.
That the OT, Acts and Epistles which are not the direct words of Jesus cannot be terms of the contract for Christianity. These are merely appendixes and guides to the main contract.

5. The ten commandments are in the OT and regardless of which verse you quote from the OT, it cannot be a term of the contract between a Christian and God.

6. One overriding contractual term in the Gospels is 'love all, even enemies' and this will cover for 'Thou Shalt not kill'.

Prove my points above are wrong?
Actually it is you who really don't know what you're talking about.
DPMartin
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by DPMartin »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:34 am
DPMartin wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:37 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:50 am
There is no agreement re 'Thou Shall NOT KILL re the Ten Commandments.
There is only an agreement if one enter into a contract [covenant] to agree with it thus the need for compliance.

"Thou Shall not kill" is in the old testament, as such is not even binding on Christians.

Christians enter into a contract with Jesus and God where the binding terms are in the Gospels and not in the OT.
The OT for Christians is merely an appendix or for guidance only.

"Thou Shall not Kill" worded accordingly in modern form is enacted as severe criminal offence in all sovereign nations. This is a legal command not a moral thing.

I suggest you realign your bearing to the truths of the above points.
according to you which means nothing, but according to the info you say you know:

Exo_34:28  And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

therefore the law is a covenant which is an agreement. also Christians are bound to the covenant of God according to Paul:

Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 

Jesus fulfilled the law in the life He lives in the flesh, and the born again are to receive that life, therefore fulfillment of the law is paramount because its a part of the life a born again receives if that person is really born again.

and in case you don't know a contract is an agreement.


its apparent you really don't know what you're talking about
Rather you are the ignorant one.

1. Yes a contract is an agreement between two or more parties.

2. A Christian is one who has entered into a contract [covenant] with God/Jesus.

3. Every contract must have a specific Terms of Contract. Hope you get this very clearly.

4. Since a Christian entered into a contract with Jesus/ God, the Terms of Contract in the case of a Christian are ONLY in the Gospels of Jesus and no where else.
That the OT, Acts and Epistles which are not the direct words of Jesus cannot be terms of the contract for Christianity. These are merely appendixes and guides to the main contract.

5. The ten commandments are in the OT and regardless of which verse you quote from the OT, it cannot be a term of the contract between a Christian and God.

6. One overriding contractual term in the Gospels is 'love all, even enemies' and this will cover for 'Thou Shalt not kill'.

Prove my points above are wrong?
Actually it is you who really don't know what you're talking about.
nice try, all of that you just posted is a no go
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Sculptor
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Sculptor »

There are no moral facts. If there were it would be easy to state one.
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:34 am
DPMartin wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:37 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:50 am
There is no agreement re 'Thou Shall NOT KILL re the Ten Commandments.
There is only an agreement if one enter into a contract [covenant] to agree with it thus the need for compliance.

"Thou Shall not kill" is in the old testament, as such is not even binding on Christians.

Christians enter into a contract with Jesus and God where the binding terms are in the Gospels and not in the OT.
The OT for Christians is merely an appendix or for guidance only.

"Thou Shall not Kill" worded accordingly in modern form is enacted as severe criminal offence in all sovereign nations. This is a legal command not a moral thing.

I suggest you realign your bearing to the truths of the above points.
according to you which means nothing, but according to the info you say you know:

Exo_34:28  And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

therefore the law is a covenant which is an agreement. also Christians are bound to the covenant of God according to Paul:

Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 

Jesus fulfilled the law in the life He lives in the flesh, and the born again are to receive that life, therefore fulfillment of the law is paramount because its a part of the life a born again receives if that person is really born again.

and in case you don't know a contract is an agreement.


its apparent you really don't know what you're talking about
Rather you are the ignorant one.

1. Yes a contract is an agreement between two or more parties.

2. A Christian is one who has entered into a contract [covenant] with God/Jesus.

3. Every contract must have a specific Terms of Contract. Hope you get this very clearly.

4. Since a Christian entered into a contract with Jesus/ God, the Terms of Contract in the case of a Christian are ONLY in the Gospels of Jesus and no where else.
That the OT, Acts and Epistles which are not the direct words of Jesus cannot be terms of the contract for Christianity. These are merely appendixes and guides to the main contract.

5. The ten commandments are in the OT and regardless of which verse you quote from the OT, it cannot be a term of the contract between a Christian and God.

6. One overriding contractual term in the Gospels is 'love all, even enemies' and this will cover for 'Thou Shalt not kill'.

Prove my points above are wrong?
Actually it is you who really don't know what you're talking about.
I have entered into a contract with God, and that is why I am an atheist.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

DPMartin wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:58 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:34 am
DPMartin wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:37 pm

according to you which means nothing, but according to the info you say you know:

Exo_34:28  And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

therefore the law is a covenant which is an agreement. also Christians are bound to the covenant of God according to Paul:

Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. 

Jesus fulfilled the law in the life He lives in the flesh, and the born again are to receive that life, therefore fulfillment of the law is paramount because its a part of the life a born again receives if that person is really born again.

and in case you don't know a contract is an agreement.


its apparent you really don't know what you're talking about
Rather you are the ignorant one.

1. Yes a contract is an agreement between two or more parties.

2. A Christian is one who has entered into a contract [covenant] with God/Jesus.

3. Every contract must have a specific Terms of Contract. Hope you get this very clearly.

4. Since a Christian entered into a contract with Jesus/ God, the Terms of Contract in the case of a Christian are ONLY in the Gospels of Jesus and no where else.
That the OT, Acts and Epistles which are not the direct words of Jesus cannot be terms of the contract for Christianity. These are merely appendixes and guides to the main contract.

5. The ten commandments are in the OT and regardless of which verse you quote from the OT, it cannot be a term of the contract between a Christian and God.

6. One overriding contractual term in the Gospels is 'love all, even enemies' and this will cover for 'Thou Shalt not kill'.

Prove my points above are wrong?
Actually it is you who really don't know what you're talking about.
nice try, all of that you just posted is a no go
Be reasonable, show me which of my argument is wrong?
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:12 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:34 am
1. Yes a contract is an agreement between two or more parties.

2. A Christian is one who has entered into a contract [covenant] with God/Jesus.

3. Every contract must have a specific Terms of Contract. Hope you get this very clearly.

4. Since a Christian entered into a contract with Jesus/ God, the Terms of Contract in the case of a Christian are ONLY in the Gospels of Jesus and no where else.
That the OT, Acts and Epistles which are not the direct words of Jesus cannot be terms of the contract for Christianity. These are merely appendixes and guides to the main contract.

5. The ten commandments are in the OT and regardless of which verse you quote from the OT, it cannot be a term of the contract between a Christian and God.

6. One overriding contractual term in the Gospels is 'love all, even enemies' and this will cover for 'Thou Shalt not kill'.

Prove my points above are wrong?
Actually it is you who really don't know what you're talking about.
I have entered into a contract with God, and that is why I am an atheist.
Where are the terms of contract between you and God.
Read up the Principles of Contract Law before you answer.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:10 pm There are no moral facts. If there were it would be easy to state one.
1. According to my proposed Moral Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK],
the inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" programmed within the DNA and brain of each humans is a fact, i.e. a moral fact.

Love all and even enemies thus 'Thou Shall Not Kill" of Christianity is a divine moral fact from within the Divine Moral System of Christianity.
This moral fact is an intuitive reflection of the actual inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" but because it is not verified or justified, it is not credible.

Note my definition of 'what is fact' is not of the ordinary kind [via ordinary language philosophy] which is inaccurate.
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Sculptor
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:30 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:12 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:34 am
1. Yes a contract is an agreement between two or more parties.

2. A Christian is one who has entered into a contract [covenant] with God/Jesus.

3. Every contract must have a specific Terms of Contract. Hope you get this very clearly.

4. Since a Christian entered into a contract with Jesus/ God, the Terms of Contract in the case of a Christian are ONLY in the Gospels of Jesus and no where else.
That the OT, Acts and Epistles which are not the direct words of Jesus cannot be terms of the contract for Christianity. These are merely appendixes and guides to the main contract.

5. The ten commandments are in the OT and regardless of which verse you quote from the OT, it cannot be a term of the contract between a Christian and God.

6. One overriding contractual term in the Gospels is 'love all, even enemies' and this will cover for 'Thou Shalt not kill'.

Prove my points above are wrong?
Actually it is you who really don't know what you're talking about.
I have entered into a contract with God, and that is why I am an atheist.
Where are the terms of contract between you and God.
Read up the Principles of Contract Law before you answer.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
That is priceless!
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Sculptor
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:41 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:10 pm There are no moral facts. If there were it would be easy to state one.
1. According to my proposed Moral Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK],
the inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" programmed within the DNA and brain of each humans is a fact, i.e. a moral fact.
Your so-called, self styled "proposed Moral Framework" is not a FACT. It's just the mind meanderings of a very naughty boy.

Love all and even enemies thus 'Thou Shall Not Kill" of Christianity is a divine moral fact from within the Divine Moral System of Christianity.
This moral fact is an intuitive reflection of the actual inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" but because it is not verified or justified, it is not credible.

Note my definition of 'what is fact' is not of the ordinary kind [via ordinary language philosophy] which is inaccurate.
Absolute bullshite!!
Killing is part of life.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:20 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:41 am
Sculptor wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:10 pm There are no moral facts. If there were it would be easy to state one.
1. According to my proposed Moral Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK],
the inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" programmed within the DNA and brain of each humans is a fact, i.e. a moral fact.
Your so-called, self styled "proposed Moral Framework" is not a FACT. It's just the mind meanderings of a very naughty boy.

Love all and even enemies thus 'Thou Shall Not Kill" of Christianity is a divine moral fact from within the Divine Moral System of Christianity.
This moral fact is an intuitive reflection of the actual inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" but because it is not verified or justified, it is not credible.

Note my definition of 'what is fact' is not of the ordinary kind [via ordinary language philosophy] which is inaccurate.
Absolute bullshite!!
Killing is part of life.
Your thinking is too old fashion and primitive.

Note this point I posted in another thread;

All humans has the potential to kill [humans and other living things] but that was and is still critical for survival of the species but with limitations for the future.

Whilst in one way, killing facilitate the survival of the species at its primal state [humans need to kill for food, self-defense, etc.], this potential to kill is a double-sided blade which can also exterminate the species, especially with the advent of very lethal Weapons of Mass Destruction. Surely you cannot dispute this?

As such there is an inherent inhibitor, i.e. the moral potential to modulate and mitigate this will-be-obsolete killing potential which is not necessary in some future time.

The "ought-NOT-ness to kill humans" is the fact or a moral potential, i.e. a moral fact which has been unfolding and we need to expedite this moral potential [a moral fact] to ensure the human species is not exterminated by someone or a group pressing that RED BUTTON! in the future.
Peter Holmes wrote:I and others have explained this to you innumerable times, and you seem incapable of following this reasoning. But perhaps someone else following this discussion can produce an explanation that will help the penny to drop for you. Also, pigs may fly.
Nah you are the one who is dogmatically stuck with archaic thinking.

We need to expound the inherent moral fact or the inherent moral potential, i.e. to inculcate the 'ought-not-ness to kill humans' in all individuals so that we have fool proof state where no one will ever press that RED Button and no nations will stock WMDs in the future. [note in the future, not now].
We need to understand these moral facts so that we can expeditious self-develop in all individual in the future this necessary moral reality of the 'ought-not-ness to kill humans'.

Btw, even with the lowest credibility of moral facts, the divine moral facts of Christianity is sufficient to prevent their genuine followers from pressing the Red Button. But this is not extensive, we need to get every human on board and thus has to promote the realistic moral facts within all humans via a credible moral FSK in the future.

With your claims of no moral facts, humanity will remain in status quo in this regards and thus increase the possibility the human species could be exterminated by some rogue dictators or evil groups with the latest lethal WMDs in the future.
Iwannaplato
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Iwannaplato »

Inveritas writes:
Love all and even enemies thus 'Thou Shall Not Kill" of Christianity is a divine moral fact from within the Divine Moral System of Christianity.
This moral fact is an intuitive reflection of the actual inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" but because it is not verified or justified, it is not credible.
So, note the chain of information. Love all and even thine enemies, thus Thou shalt not kill
is a divine moral fact.
This moral fact is an intuitive reflection.
It is not verified or justied.
It is not credible.

Thus (as Inveritas would say)
A moral fact is something that is not credible, justified or verified.

Then we have....
Note my definition of 'what is fact' is not of the ordinary kind [via ordinary language philosophy] which is inaccurate.
Which is unintelligible. But it is an unintelligle admission that he is not using the word 'fact' the way other people do. Which is obvious.

But let's look at the sloppiness starting here.
1 - He seems to conflate everyday usage of fact with ordinary language philosophy. Or does he mean that he used ordinary language philosophy to decide that the normal definition of fact is inaccurate. Who knows? His writing is messy and has been messy for years. But he never takes responsibility for this or improves. Perhaps he is a better thinker than his posts indicate, but has language problems. Hard to know.
2 - The moral fact is an intuitive reflection of the actual inherent ought not ness to kill another human.
After getting through this sloppy dense sentence....
Notice in implict claim that the oughtnotness is actual, that is real. Or it could mean it is inherent in some system of belief. But since he does not say what it is inherent IN it's a messy assertion at best, av claim without support at worst and as it reads.
3 - If what he means by fact, in moral fact, can be something that is not verified, not justified and not credible, he should know that he is actually agreeing with the people he is apparantly disagreeing with. He should have some knowledge of the normal and also the philosophical definitions of the word 'fact' and thus be able to say something like, say....'I agree with you Sculptor, but I am using the word 'fact' in an idiosyncratic way that means nearly the opposite of everday usage and philosophical usage. This could immediately clear up all sorts of problems. And while many might think his use of the word 'fact' here is ludicrous, I think at least some would now at least understand his position and be able to acknowledge commonalities. This is all assuming the best possible interpretation of very sloppy language use around a very idiosyncratic use of the word 'fact' and the phrase 'moral fact'.
4 - given his beliefs, his use of the word 'Divine' is very sloppy.

My general point being that even in relatively short passages, there is so much that is idiosyncratic and so much sloppy language use and confusion that it makes it hard to even know, even if he does which I wonder about, what he believes or is asserting.

Though I just saw this....
Regardless of the fakeness of God, the intuited moral fact "ought-not-ness to kill another human" was intuited correctly and what is critical is when incorporated as a command with threat of Hellfire, it does work optimally to contribute the well being of humanity relative the past and present [not necessary the future].
So he is asserting that this particular moral fact was intuited correctly. Which again is an objective claim and the rest of the sentence has implicit objective morality in it.

So even though it is not credible, justified or verified, it is correct.

Which is utterly bizzare. He is saying something that is not credible is correct. Credible means, amongst other things, not believable. Why does he believe in something he thinks is not credible? Or actually
How does he believe in something that he thinks is not credible?
That's oxymoronic.
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:47 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:20 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:41 am
1. According to my proposed Moral Framework and System of Knowledge [FSK],
the inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" programmed within the DNA and brain of each humans is a fact, i.e. a moral fact.
Your so-called, self styled "proposed Moral Framework" is not a FACT. It's just the mind meanderings of a very naughty boy.

Love all and even enemies thus 'Thou Shall Not Kill" of Christianity is a divine moral fact from within the Divine Moral System of Christianity.
This moral fact is an intuitive reflection of the actual inherent "ought-not-ness to kill another human" but because it is not verified or justified, it is not credible.

Note my definition of 'what is fact' is not of the ordinary kind [via ordinary language philosophy] which is inaccurate.
Absolute bullshite!!
Killing is part of life.
Your thinking is too old fashion and primitive.
Why can moral facts not be old fashioned and primitive.
How do you manage to live without killing?
Please let us all know. We need a good laugh!
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: There are Moral Facts

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:39 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 10:47 am
Sculptor wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:20 am
Your so-called, self styled "proposed Moral Framework" is not a FACT. It's just the mind meanderings of a very naughty boy.

Absolute bullshite!!
Killing is part of life.
Your thinking is too old fashion and primitive.
Why can moral facts not be old fashioned and primitive.
How do you manage to live without killing?
Please let us all know. We need a good laugh!
What are you talking about?? You are laughable, i.e. at your own ignorance.

As I had always claimed, morality per se is only applicable to humans NEVER non-humans.

If killing of non-humans is a moral issue, how can we account for the killing of zillions of good and bad bacteria, viruses, insects, micro-organisms, killing of non-humans for food, etc.

As such the killings of non-humans is not a moral issue but of course killing of non-humans has other non-moral consideration implications, limitations and restrictions.

Note you ignore this more critical point;

The "ought-NOT-ness to kill humans" is the fact or a moral potential, i.e. a moral fact which has been unfolding and we need to recognize and expedite this moral potential [a moral fact] to ensure the human species is not exterminated by someone or a group pressing that RED BUTTON! in the future.
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