popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:52 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:28 am
popeye1945 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:46 am
How could anything be objective, seeing as we can only know the world subjectively?
Are you saying our current scientific knowledge is not "objective"?
Objective is defined as belief or knowledge that is independent of any individual's beliefs, judgment or opinion.
What is objective must always be conditioned to a specific Framework and System of Reality [FSR], i.e. scientific knowledge is only objective when qualified to its FSR.
However, the bottom line is, whatever is claimed as objective [conditionally] is ultimately subjective.
Knowledge is meaning and thus it is the property of a conscious subject, knowledge, and meaning can never belong to the object in question and the truth of that knowledge is inescapably relative only to a conscious subject. There is nothing known that is independent of a conscious subject, the truth of something can be related/communicated by a like biology but it is not first-hand knowledge and will be affirmed or negated with personal experience. We trust the statements of authorities that experience through like biologizes but this is not true knowledge until it is personal experience.
You stated:
How could anything be objective, seeing as we can only know the world subjectively?
So I asked above:
Are you saying our current scientific knowledge is not "objective"?
But you did not answer the above directly.
In any case, personal experience cannot be 'true' knowledge because the individual-human[s] by nature or even by necessity are very fallible.
Here's Kant's view of objective true knowledge which range within a continuum from very loose opinions [no truth values] to the highest possible objective knowledge.
1. Opinions are very subjective because anything goes without any need or call for justifications. This will have no or at best minimal truth value, say 0-1%.
2. Beliefs, i.e. personal beliefs are based on personal experiences which are personally justified, i.e. confidence restricted to only oneself. Because the individual human is so fallible, the highest truth value is say 50%.
3. Knowledge, i.e. knowledge is objective when personal beliefs are verified and justified within a community, i.e. a Framework and System of Reality [FSR]; e.g. the scientific FSR will generate a range of truth value from 51% to the highest possible truth value of say 90%.
Thus, knowledge can be called qualified 'justified true belief' [JTB]
We have various FSR, e.g. legal, economics, mathematics, political and the likes which will generate their respective truth values with different confidence levels.
Thus, personal experience is restricted to 2 above and at best its truth value cannot exceed 50% until it is verified and justified within its respective community and FSR.
For example, Einstein may have a personal confidence of 100% of his Theory of Relativity based on his personal experience, verification and justification [proof] but it is not accepted as
scientific-knowledge [qualified and conditional] until it is accepted by his peers who will confirm its compliance with the FSR of the community.
As we can see, Einstein theory of relativity when contrast to Quantum Mechanics can at best generate a truth value of say 80%.
Note % used are relative [rough] not absolute.
It is the same with moral truth and objectivity where whatever the moral facts and truths, they must be conditioned upon a credible moral FSR; unfortunately there is no established moral FSR but it is nevertheless working loosely.