Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

[henry quirk]

When a woman takes the morning after pill is that MURDER?

I don't know.

Your turn.

When the 'thing' is given a birth certificate

So, before it leaves a woman's body, it's not a person, not at any point durin' pregnancy, yeah?

Right up to and past delivery, it's not a person, right?

It's only when The State sez it's a person that it's a person: that's what you're sayin', yeah?

Up-thread you say My personal opinion on such late abortions is getting close to what you would term 'murder', but if what a woman carries is not a person then how can abortin' be close to murder at any point durin' pregnancy?

[attofishpi]

I don't know.

Your turn.

When the 'thing' is given a birth certificate

So, before it leaves a woman's body, it's not a person, not at any point durin' pregnancy, yeah?

Right up to and past delivery, it's not a person, right?

It's only when The State sez it's a person that it's a person: that's what you're sayin', yeah?

Up-thread you say My personal opinion on such late abortions is getting close to what you would term 'murder', but if what a woman carries is not a person then how can abortin' be close to murder at any point durin' pregnancy?

The point was satirical, something USAdians have a hard time distinguishing - note the:-

[henry quirk]

Tell you what, bub, when you actually wanna answer my question, we can pick up the conversation.

[wtf]

..and again, there is a difference between a LOVING couple that want to have a child.

Fascinating. Am I to understand that you are saying that the morality of murder depends on whether the victim is loved, and by whom? Surely you have not thought much about what you typed. How does this standard distinguish between an unborn baby and an unruly 14 year old? "We don't love the rugrat, let's kill it with the State's blessing."

[Immanuel Can]

I.C. you are unethical when it comes to what should be an honest and open Philosophy debate by removing pertinent points, and insisting only your own are worthy of discussion - renders you weak and cowardly since you clearly know you have no rebuttal to the points I have made.

What "points" Atto? I don't see anything worthy of that name.

You haven't even said how you know what a baby is. And I know why: you can't. There's no reason why a baby ten seconds prior to birth is anything less than a baby ten seconds later. And you know it. You don't like it, maybe, but you know it.

[attofishpi]

..and again, there is a difference between a LOVING couple that want to have a child.

Fascinating. Am I to understand that you are saying that the morality of murder depends on whether the victim is loved, and by whom? Surely you have not thought much about what you typed. How does this standard distinguish between an unborn baby and an unruly 14 year old? "We don't love the rugrat, let's kill it with the State's blessing."

Please read the points I have made on the previous page regarding a SOUL. Should a woman that has been raped be considered a murderer when she terminates her pregnancy?

[attofishpi]

I.C. you are unethical when it comes to what should be an honest and open Philosophy debate by removing pertinent points, and insisting only your own are worthy of discussion - renders you weak and cowardly since you clearly know you have no rebuttal to the points I have made.

What "points" Atto? I don't see anything worthy of that name.

What you consider not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion, AND YOU KNOW IT - that you are unethical, ergo, unworthy of having debates on this platform.

You haven't even said how you know what a baby is. And I know why: you can't. There's no reason why a baby ten seconds prior to birth is anything less than a baby ten seconds later. And you know it. You don't like it, maybe, but you know it.

I have stated to you my POV on this, that basically I am in agreement with you, please re-read my post on that. AND Henry, in answer to your question, I suggest you do the same.

[Lacewing]

They didn't abort children in those days.

You don't think people have been creating and drinking concoctions throughout history for such things?

That may or may not be: who can say how many?

That's not the point. The point is that you make claims that don't fit reality and use those to try to support your other nonsense claims.

[henry quirk]

You haven't even said how you know what a baby is. And I know why: you can't. There's no reason why a baby ten seconds prior to birth is anything less than a baby ten seconds later. And you know it. You don't like it, maybe, but you know it.

I have stated to you my POV on this, that basically I am in agreement with you, please re-read my post on that. *AND Henry, in answer to your question, I suggest you do the same.

You mean this?

So give your evidence that a child is not a child. Let's start with the third trimester: how do you know the entity in the womb ten seconds before birth is not a person. but the entity in the room ten seconds later is, and is in every possible sense of the word? What's your evidence?

My personal opinion on such late abortions is getting close to what you would term 'murder' - there is a point in time that the developed foetus has receptors developed to pain for example.

So what a woman carries becomes a person in the last three months of pregnancy, or in the latter part of the last three months, or just before birth?

[Immanuel Can]

I.C. you are unethical when it comes to what should be an honest and open Philosophy debate by removing pertinent points, and insisting only your own are worthy of discussion - renders you weak and cowardly since you clearly know you have no rebuttal to the points I have made.

What "points" Atto? I don't see anything worthy of that name.

What you consider not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion,

What I know is that offering that which is not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion.

I have stated to you my POV on this, that basically I am in agreement with you,

Well, no.

You've agreed that killing third trimester babies is a morally suspect activity. That's a start, maybe. But abortion is pretty evidently a whole lot worse than merely suspect.

Do you have an answer for how we tell when a child is a person or not?

[attofishpi]

What "points" Atto? I don't see anything worthy of that name.

What you consider not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion,

What I know is that offering that which is not worthy of debate is not the way to have a philosophical discussion.

I have stated to you my POV on this, that basically I am in agreement with you,

Well, no.

You've agreed that killing third trimester babies is a morally suspect activity. That's a start, maybe. But abortion is pretty evidently a whole lot worse than merely suspect.

Do you have an answer for how we tell when a child is a person or not?

This is getting rather hilarious.


Embryo vs. Fetus: The Stages of Pregnancy - MedicineNethttps://www.medicinenet.com
What is a fetus? After the embryonic period has ended at the end of the 10th week of pregnancy, the embryo is now considered a fetus. A fetus is a developing baby beginning in the 11th week of pregnancy.

For me, a "person" is someone that is no longer requiring support via an umbilical cord.

So, when a woman takes the morning after pill - is she a possible murderer?

[henry quirk]

For me, a "person" is someone that is no longer requiring support via an umbilical cord.

Viability.

Too bad, then, for paraplegics, folks in iron lungs, those dependent on dialysis and other regular life-sustainin' procedures: not a one of them is viable and -- by your reckoning -- not persons.

[henry quirk]

So, when a woman takes the morning after pill - is she a possible murderer?

As I say: I don't know.

[attofishpi]

For me, a "person" is someone that is no longer requiring support via an umbilical cord.

Viability.

Too bad, then, for paraplegics, folks in iron lungs, those dependent on dialysis and other regular life-sustainin' procedures: not a one of them is viable and -- by your reckoning -- not persons.

FFS. Please look up the difference between an iron lung and dialysis machines to that of an umbilical cord.

Er, is an embryo a person?

[henry quirk]

*Please look up the difference between an iron lung and dialysis machines to that of an umbilical cord.

**Er, is an embryo a person?

*No, you consider the purpose and application of the umbilical cord, the iron lung, dialysis machine, etc.

**And: no, I ain't pickin' nits about medical/biological terminology.