Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by Immanuel Can »

attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:34 am The world would be awash with delinquents (more so than now) if every foetus was permitted to be born via people with neither the means or what is important to raise a healthy well adjusted child.
Now you're playing God. You're saying whose life is worth something, and whose is not, and that you already know how a life is going to work out.

Of course, you have know such knowledge. A child born into poverty and deprivation may grow up to be a great civil rights leader or to discover a cure for cancer, for all you know. There are, indeed, many stories of people transcending their births in marvelous ways. But they'll do no such thing if you murder them before they begin. And you don't know that the son or daughter of privilege won't grow up to be a school shooter or a genocidal dictator, do you?

That's what makes your argument silly and irrelevant -- it requires you to pretend to be God.

But there's a second reason, and it's that you are in no position to say what anybody's life is worth, regardless of whom they turn out to be. You're not the locus of value.

And I'll throw in a third: by behaving responsibily yourself, you can avoid both having to play God and having to kill somebody. You can make your choice to use your reproductive powers responsibly, and not create people you are murdering later.

So no, it's not a good argument, from any point of view.
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Sculptor
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:50 pm
attofishpi wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:34 am The world would be awash with delinquents (more so than now) if every foetus was permitted to be born via people with neither the means or what is important to raise a healthy well adjusted child.
Now you're playing God.
We are told to live by His example.
QED: We need to abort more.
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

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henry quirk wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:03 pm BTW, you've changed your tune.

Yep.
Since Henry is so keen on pactures I thought he would like this one too.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

henry quirk wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:26 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:39 am
RCSaunders wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:43 pm
I didn't make it up, Henry. If you go to the link you'll see a fetus, just like any other, is actually growing inside an newborn's testicle sack. Of course it is just a parasite on it's host (and will never live on its own), as all fetuses are parasites. You don't have to like it, but a fetus is just not a baby, it is only, "sometimes," potentially a baby.

Facts are facts. .. I just don't want anyone determining what medical procedures anyone else must or must not have. Like: "you must have a covid shot," or, "you must not have an abortion." Neither is anyone else's (especially a government's) business. Intentionally confusing a fetus with a, "living breathing-on-its-own," baby is just a lie to justify interference in other's lives.
Very well said, and anyone who purports to believe in 'freedom' really has no choice but to agree, or show themselves up to be a hypocrite and a phony of the worst kind.
I'll try to keep this so simple even you can understand.

In my view: a person has a natural right to his life, liberty, and *property.

This means, for example, I ought not steal from you, or hurt or kill or put a leash on you.

In my view: the thing a pregnant woman carries, at least thru the last six months of the pregnancy, is a person.

If the thing she carries is a person, then -- like you -- he has a natural right to his life, liberty, and property.

And if he has a natural right to his life, liberty, and property, then it's wrong for the woman to end his life (it's not hers to dispose of).

Now, as I say, if what she carries is just human meat (not a person) then she can do with it as she likes.

Which brings us back to what I believe is the rock-bottom question: Does a pregnant woman carry a human being/person or just 'life'/meat?


Now, veg, let me address my changed tune: for a good chunk of my life I was a worthless garbage person much like yourself (atheistic, nihilistic, selfish). I lacked principle. A few years back, I had my road to Damascus moment. I became a deist, recognized natural law/rights, and discovered the difference between freedom and license. I found or recognized a moral reality. If this makes me hypocritical and phony, well, so be it.




*the first and best property of a person is himself
You are full of shit, and probably the most worthless person on here. And YOu calling ANYONE ELSE 'selfish' has to be the most blatant and hilarious example of a complete lack of self awareness anyone has ever witnessed. Your entire 'philosophy' and 'raison d'etre' is selfishness and 'me me me'.
Even your reason for commenting here about something that you clearly know nothing about, have no interest in knowing anything about, and 'could' never know anything about is entirely selfish and based on the most vile and ignoble of reasons. What a disgusting human being you truly are.
Shove your ridiculous and disingenuous 'deism' up your arse. If you think it makes you a 'better' person then think again. You are stll exactly the same person you were before you invented your own little imaginery friend.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:38 am
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:30 am
I think choices that require one to have a risky medical procedure to remedy the consequences of those choices is not as good as having some forethought to evade those consequences. There is seldom any reason an unwanted pregnancy cannot be avoided these days. I'm obviously not referring to rape or other such cases. I'm not making a moral judgment, but a practical one. It just seems to me the most dangerous form of birth control.
It's hardly a 'risky medical procedure'. Probably safer than getting a filling.
Everything is so 'simple' isn't it? And you forget that anti-choicers are generally against birth control as well. The only 'birth control' they approve of is marriage to an ugly kristian male and a lot of 'headaches'. You seriously believe that those women never have abortions?
What difference does it make what others think. You asked me for my reasoning, not, "anti-choicers." All medical procedures are dangerous, why do you think you have to sign a consent form before having one. I have no idea what your problem is, but I'm on your side in this issue--at least up to now.
So women should opt for childbirth or caesarean, both of which really are 'risky medical procedures' (and also very expensive ones in the US)? No need to get all touchy about it. I was simply pointing out the part of your comment that I didn't agree with. Don't people have to sign forms in the US for so much as a manicure? :lol: Ridiculous, litigious country.
You also said that abortion is 'always a bad choice'. That doesn't look like a 'well reasoned argument' to me. Both of those comments stood out as weirdly at odds with an otherwise well reasoned argument. I can only imagine the reason for that.
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:24 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:50 pm Now you're playing God.
We are told to live by His example.
No, you're not.

You're not told to "play God." There is only one God, and only God Himself can say what any life is ultimately worth. God who gave life has also the right to take life away. But nobody else is to take such power to himself or herself.

Those who try to "play God" simply end up having to answer for it to the One whose role it truly is.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

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There are few things more repulsive and artificial than a self-righteous 'born again'. They should call themselves an 'even more boring' instead.
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henry quirk
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

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Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:28 pmSince Henry is so keen on pactures I thought he would like this one too.
I guess that's supposed to insult or trouble.

But: I don't get it
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by RCSaunders »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:06 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:28 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:38 am
It's hardly a 'risky medical procedure'. Probably safer than getting a filling.
Everything is so 'simple' isn't it? And you forget that anti-choicers are generally against birth control as well. The only 'birth control' they approve of is marriage to an ugly kristian male and a lot of 'headaches'. You seriously believe that those women never have abortions?
What difference does it make what others think. You asked me for my reasoning, not, "anti-choicers." All medical procedures are dangerous, why do you think you have to sign a consent form before having one. I have no idea what your problem is, but I'm on your side in this issue--at least up to now.
So women should opt for childbirth or caesarean, both of which really are 'risky medical procedures' (and also very expensive ones in the US)? No need to get all touchy about it. I was simply pointing out the part of your comment that I didn't agree with. Don't people have to sign forms in the US for so much as a manicure? :lol: Ridiculous, litigious country.
I have no idea what any woman, "should," do. Every individual is different and what is best for any individual only that individual can possibly know. That means that every individual is responsible for their own life, and it is their own choices and actions that determine their success or failure. Otherwise, how anyone else chooses to live their own life is no one else's business so long as they do not interfere in anyone else's life (by any uninvited intrusion).
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:06 pm You also said that abortion is 'always a bad choice'. That doesn't look like a 'well reasoned argument' to me. Both of those comments stood out as weirdly at odds with an otherwise well reasoned argument. I can only imagine the reason for that.
No! I never said or thought abortion is always a bad choice. What I said was, "I think abortion is almost always a bad choice, and the reasons for them is usually other bad choices." That only means, whatever choices one makes that ultimately results in one choosing to have an abortion, especially if one is not totally happy with that choice, could have been a better one, not to meet some do-gooder's or "societiy's" moral standard, but for their own welfare and happiness. I certainly don't want any of that forced on anyone.

I assume any woman who chooses to have an abortion is making the best choice possible at that moment in her estimation, and whatever choice she makes is no one else's business. That does not mean that I (or anyone else), as an objective observer, have to conclude all that woman's choices were good ones, especially if they contribute to that woman's failure or unhappiness.
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

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vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:54 pmYou are full of shit, and probably the most worthless person on here.
if you think so, then I must be doin' sumthin' right
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by Immanuel Can »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:06 pm So women should opt for childbirth or caesarean,
What happened to the "choice" as to what you do with your body in regard to conception? No self-control? No birth-control?

And beyond all that, how does killing another human being remedy those two earlier bad choices? That moves the whole thing from merely "irresponsible" to the level of "homicidal."
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

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Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:22 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:24 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:50 pm Now you're playing God.
We are told to live by His example.
No, you're not.

You're not told to "play God." There is only one God, and only God Himself can say what any life is ultimately worth. God who gave life has also the right to take life away. But nobody else is to take such power to himself or herself.

Those who try to "play God" simply end up having to answer for it to the One whose role it truly is.
So I can do what I want?
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Immanuel Can
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by Immanuel Can »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:45 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:22 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:24 pm
We are told to live by His example.
No, you're not.

You're not told to "play God." There is only one God, and only God Himself can say what any life is ultimately worth. God who gave life has also the right to take life away. But nobody else is to take such power to himself or herself.

Those who try to "play God" simply end up having to answer for it to the One whose role it truly is.
So I can do what I want?
You are not told to imitate a role you do not occupy. You are told what's right for you, in the role you do occupy.

But you can take your chances as you see fit, I guess.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Religioturd men commenting on abortion; blah blah blah blah blah none of my fucking business, blah, blah......
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Re: Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

Post by Sculptor »

Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:51 pm
Sculptor wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:45 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:22 pm
No, you're not.

You're not told to "play God." There is only one God, and only God Himself can say what any life is ultimately worth. God who gave life has also the right to take life away. But nobody else is to take such power to himself or herself.

Those who try to "play God" simply end up having to answer for it to the One whose role it truly is.
So I can do what I want?
You are not told to imitate a role you do not occupy. You are told what's right for you, in the role you do occupy.

But you can take your chances as you see fit, I guess.
So as a abortionist I am free to follow my role.
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