Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:11 am
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:52 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:48 am
The point is you questioned how opinions and beliefs can be converted to knowledge when it is institutionalized.
Oy vey--no. You said that it becomes something
other than belief. Since knowledge is a type of belief, I'm not wondering how you're saying it becomes knowledge. That wouldn't be explaining how it becomes
something other than belief.
Note Gettier, when even a guess by luck could turn out to be knowledge [JTB].
Can you counter how scientists' beliefs are converted to scientific knowledge when institutionalized within the scientific FSK.
I did not imply knowledge is not belief.
Then talking about how something becomes knowledge is irrelevant to talking about how it becomes something other than belief.
Note my request above re scientists' beliefs [hypotheses] are converted to scientific knowledge.
Note I have presented the continuum of opinions to beliefs to knowledge in terms of subjectivity to objectivity.
However we choose to use the terms "subjective" and "objective,"
beliefs are mental phenomena. If knowledge is belief, knowledge is a mental phenomenon. That has certain upshots that are different than when something isn't a mental phenomenon.
Here is an example,
Originally various scientists has opinions and beliefs that the symptoms [on hindsight are confirmed as covid19] were caused by a virus from bats, other animals or created in a lab.
A group of scientists
believed strongly [belief-B] the covid19 virus was created in a lab in China.
If sometime in the future, it is verified, justified and confirmed that the covid19 is really created in a lab in China, then, that would be confirmed knowledge [Knowledge-K] of that reality.
So can you see that belief-B is converted to knowledge-K when institutionalized [verified and justified] within the scientific community and W.H.O-FSK.
Thus whilst the reality remained at it was, is and will be,
the opinions and beliefs [belief-B] of that reality is converted to knowledge-K when institutionalized.
Get it?
I'm finally just about to resign this as hopeless.
First off, the Gettier problem, ignoring issues it has (and it has many issues in my view), doesn't even approach the vicinity of suggesting that knowledge isn't belief. You're grasping at straws there, straws which you apparently aren't very familiar with.
And scientific knowledge isn't something other than belief. So talking about scientific knowledge as if that's going to convince anyone that it's something other than belief doesn't work (assuming the person has even a 101-level familiarity with epistemology and the standard view of what knowledge is).
You're simply repeating stuff that doesn't at all work for the purpose that you want it to work for, and I can only guess this is due to not really grasping the idea that propositional knowledge is justified true
belief (whether we think that the Gettier problem suggests that we need further qualifications on the justification end or not).
If you're just going to keep repeating that we attain knowledge, this is pointless, because you don't even understand the issue I'm asking you about.