The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Terrapin Station
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:32 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:30 pm Okay, but that would make little sense, because you'd have no reason to NOT self-identify with it.
I don't have a reason TO self-identify with you.
Right, you'd have no reason to think that anything is not yourself, because you don't think you can observe something not yourself.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:30 pmBecause that's what hallucinations want? Apparently they have hallucinatory social norms.
Where the society is a hallucination sure. So it's just a whim.

I'm fine with folks taking these stances. It's just not a very good stance from which to argue that anything is objective, that anything is other than a personal fantasy, etc. If that's what people want to assert, cool, I'm happy to let people saying that everything they're saying is their subjective fantasy. It's just like when eliminativists argue that they have no mind. I'm happy to let them argue that . .. and who is going to try to argue with people with no mind, people who are just relaying their subjective fantasies, etc.?
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:34 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:32 pm Re self-identifying, you certainly wouldn't think that you can observe something that's not yourself, would you?
If solipsism were true it doesn't imply I would know it to be true.
Sure, but in this case you're saying you buy it, so given that, you have no reason to think that you can observe something else. Otherwise you're being dishonest in some of these comments.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:37 pm Right, you'd have no reason to think that anything is not yourself, because you don't think you can observe something not yourself.
And none of that would matter if solipsism were true.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:37 pm I'm fine with folks taking these stances. It's just not a very good stance from which to argue that anything is objective
Why not? Objective would simply mean anything that is NOT me. In so far as I know where "me" stops.

I could be wrong about where "me" stops, but I would believe that there's a fuzzy line. And that line would be the subjective/objective divide.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:38 pm Sure, but in this case you're saying you buy it
How would you NOT buy it if it were true?!?
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:39 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:37 pm Right, you'd have no reason to think that anything is not yourself, because you don't think you can observe something not yourself.
And none of that would matter if solipsism were true.
"Mattering" is always an issue of how much someone cares about something. So it depends on who we ask.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:37 pm Why not? Objective would simply mean anything that is NOT me.

The stance in question is that there isn't anything that's not you.
I could be wrong about where "me" stops,
How? You'd have to believe that there's something other than your imaginings for that.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:42 pm The stance in question is that there isn't anything that's not you.
Yes. Ontologically.

Epistemically, how would I know?
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:42 pm How? You'd have to believe that there's something other than your imaginings for that.
I wouldn't know they are imaginings.

There's no empirical difference between solipsism and realism.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:44 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:42 pm The stance in question is that there isn't anything that's not you.
Yes. Ontologically.

Epistemically, how would I know?
You might have an ontological stance that's something you don't think you can know? (Seriously?)
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:42 pm How? You'd have to believe that there's something other than your imaginings for that.
I wouldn't know they are imaginings.

There's no empirical difference between solipsism and realism.
So then why would you say that one can't observe externals?
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:52 pm You might have an ontological stance that's something you don't think you can know? (Seriously?)
Yes! That is how epistemology works. The nature of reality is unknown and unknowable.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:52 pm So then why would you say that one can't observe externals?
Ontologically: Because it would be a lie (that I am unaware of telling).
Epistemically: because there are things that happen outside of my control/awareness.
Last edited by Skepdick on Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:56 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:52 pm You might have an ontological stance that's something you don't think you can know? (Seriously?)
Yes! That is how epistemology works. The nature of reality is unknown and unknowable.
That's an idiosyncratic opinion about how epistemology works, and when that would be someone's opinion, it would be very unusual for them to adopt some ontological stance or other.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:52 pm So then why would you say that one can't observe externals?
Because it would be a lie (that I am unaware of telling).
So then you think you know that one can't observe externals. Otherwise you'd just say I don't know whether one can observe externals or whether one can only observe mental phenomena.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:00 pm That's an idiosyncratic opinion about how epistemology works, and when that would be someone's opinion, it would be very unusual for them to adopt some ontological stance or other.
Not in the least. Ontology is a subset of epistemology.

The only way you could speak of any ontological existents is if you knew about them.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:00 pm So then you think you know that one can't observe externals. Otherwise you'd just say I don't know whether one can observe externals or whether one can only observe mental phenomena.
Tell me, where exactly is the internal/external line.

Draw it for me.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:01 pm The only way you could speak of any ontological existents is if you knew about them.
Hence why it would be weird for you to have any particular ontological stance at all.

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:00 pm So then you think you know that one can't observe externals. Otherwise you'd just say I don't know whether one can observe externals or whether one can only observe mental phenomena.
Tell me, where exactly is the internal/external line.

Draw it for me.
There are two common interpretations that are both useful in different contexts: One, where your brain ends. Two, where you body ends.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:05 pm Hence why it would be weird for you to have any particular ontological stance at all.
Which is why I don't. Ontology has an epistemic function.

It's synthesised as and when needed.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:05 pm There are two common interpretations that are both useful in different contexts: One, where your brain ends. Two, where you body ends.
Those seem rather broad. Why not where "I" (the observer) end and the feelings, emotions and experiences begin?
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:14 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:05 pm Hence why it would be weird for you to have any particular ontological stance at all.
Which is why I don't. Ontology has an epistemic function.
Okay, but earlier I said, "The stance in question is that there isn't anything that's not you." You said, "Yes. Ontologically." So you weren't saying that that's an ontological stance?
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:05 pm There are two common interpretations that are both useful in different contexts: One, where your brain ends. Two, where you body ends.
Those seem rather broad. Why not where "I" (the observer) end and the feelings, emotions and experiences begin?
Feelings, emotions experiences are part of "I"--they're things one's brain does, they're conscious, etc.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:17 pm So you weren't saying that that's an ontological stance?
I was saying it. And it served an epistemic function.

To communicate to you a concept that exists in my mind.

I am neither committed nor uncommitted to that ontology. It's just an interpretation model.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:17 pm Feelings, emotions experiences are part of "I"--they're things one's brain does, they're conscious, etc.
Not if "I" am the observer.
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Re: The Striving to Survive with Well-Being is an Opinion?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:19 pm
I was saying it.
Sure. So it was an ontological stance, but you don't have any ontological stances.
I am neither committed nor uncommitted to that ontology. It's just an interpretation model.
Then I wouldn't say it's an ontological stance, it's just a possibility. Then the question becomes why we'd believe one possibility over another, or why we'd feel there's no basis for picking one over the other.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:17 pm Feelings, emotions experiences are part of "I"--they're things one's brain does, they're conscious, etc.
Not if "I" am the observer.
The "transcendental 'I'" idea?
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