What is a right action?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Skepdick
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:44 pm Questioning it doesn't equate to agreeing with it, it equates to insisting that justification always matters, even or especially with things that tend to be taken for granted..
When in the one sentence you say "Genocide is wrong/abhorrent." and in the very next sentence you turn around and question the wrongness/abhorrence of genocide, then it equates to you asking yourself for justification of your own words.

And in the next step of stupidity, you should ask yourself to justify your own justification. And the justification of your justification.

Awkward. There is an irresolvable conflict between skepticism and foundationalism.

The foundationalist says "This is red."
The skeptic says "Why?"

How do you answer him? "Fuck off" seems too polite.
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Sculptor
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Sculptor »

Advocate wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:44 pm
Questioning it doesn't equate to agreeing with it, it equates to insisting that justification always matters, even or especially with ideas that tend to be taken for granted..
Thank you - wise words.
Skep-dick does not seem to know why he thinks genocide is bad. But somehow he knows it is objectively true that it is bad.
Someone ought to remind him that this is a philosophy page.
Advocate
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Advocate »

[quote=Sculptor post_id=502310 time=1615742850 user_id=17400]
[quote=Advocate post_id=502247 time=1615736665 user_id=15238]

Questioning it doesn't equate to agreeing with it, it equates to insisting that justification always matters, even or especially with ideas that tend to be taken for granted..
[/quote]

Thank you - wise words.
Skep-dick does not seem to know why he thinks genocide is bad. But somehow he knows it is objectively true that it is bad.
Someone ought to remind him that this is a philosophy page.
[/quote]

He understands more than he lets on; he's just a dick.
Skepdick
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Skepdick »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:27 pm Thank you - wise words.
Ag, shame, pumpkin. I was talking about you when I said that you are a retard.
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:27 pm Skep-dick does not seem to know why he thinks genocide is bad. But somehow he knows it is objectively true that it is bad.
Someone ought to remind him that this is a philosophy page.
You don't seem to know why you think this is red. But somehow you know it is objectively true that it is red.

I am reminding you that this is a philosophy page.
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Last edited by Skepdick on Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Skepdick
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Skepdick »

Advocate wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:35 pm He understands more than he lets on; he's just a dick.
When in Rome do like the Romans.
When in here... do like the other dicks.

The only difference is I am actually intellectually honest about it.
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Sculptor
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Sculptor »

Advocate wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:35 pm
He understands more than he lets on; he's just a dick.

A "troll" best describes him.
I would imagine he lives alone and is angry at something.
Skepdick
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Skepdick »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:29 pm A "troll" best describes him.
I would imagine he lives alone and is angry at something.
I am doing EXACTLY what you are doing :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If it seem to you that I am trolling then you should probably stop trolling.
If it seem to you that I am angry then you should stop being angry.

Your behaviour determines mine.

Philosophy: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:33 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:32 am You ask about 'wrongness' so I am giving you the literal answer.
But what is legal is not morality-proper.
FALSE
Most people can think of laws that are immoral, or amoral. Why can't you?
You missed my point.

It is a LEGAL fact, Genocide is legally 'wrong' in all sovereign nations.
That is a legal fact within a legal framework and system [FSK].
If you don't agree, show me proofs which country permit "genocide" as legal?

What people think [opinions] of laws in their countries is irrelevant to the real existence of the law as a matter of fact.

I believe laws that allowed killing of humans in whatever form are not in alignment with what is morality-proper and thus need to be got rid off in the FUTURE but not now due to our current human state.
That is where you are ignorant.
The drive to protect one's own race is tribalism [us versus them], not based on empathy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism
In any tribalistic driven genocide the propensity for empathy is suppressed.

Empathy is generic and is related to the individual human being regardless of race.
Genocide is a contradiction to empathy.
Thus if you do not condemn genocide, you are not a normal individual human being.
We are talking about what is objective. Not what is obviously culturally and historically contingent.
For my way of thinking, since your morality does not include any considerations of biophilia, you are yourself completely morally bankrupt.
You have not defined what is morality and it seem for you morality mean anything your prefer is moral.

What is morality-proper to me is 'promoting good and avoiding evil [as defined]' and morality-proper is confined to the human species only and extended out where it is optimal at present or the future.

Blind considerations of biophilia is stupidity, e.g. some stupid humans are willing to sacrifice their precious lives for animals, plants, trees, etc. without exercising rationality and wisdom. We have cases of humans drowned in attempting to save a dog in rough waters and other blind and stupid acts.
Peter Holmes
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Peter Holmes »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:12 am
What is morality-proper to me is 'promoting good and avoiding evil [as defined]' and morality-proper is confined to the human species only and extended out where it is optimal at present or the future.
1 What we count as good and evil is a matter of opinion. To call these choices objective - independent from opinion - is laughable.

2 That our moral concern should be only for ourselves is a matter of opinion. To call that choice objective is also laughable.

Your claim that there is 'morality-proper', your question-begging invention of a 'moral FSK' - in sum, your whole argument for moral objectivity - for the existence of moral facts - is a joke.
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Peter Holmes wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:13 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:12 am
What is morality-proper to me is 'promoting good and avoiding evil [as defined]' and morality-proper is confined to the human species only and extended out where it is optimal at present or the future.
1 What we count as good and evil is a matter of opinion. To call these choices objective - independent from opinion - is laughable.
As usual you are expressing from a very shallow, narrow, dogmatic and ignorant database.

I have defined what is morality-proper here [ linked a "1000" times];
What is morality-proper.
viewtopic.php?p=469799#p469799

It is not a matter of opinion, whatever is defined as evil and every act categorized as 'evil' must be verified and justified empirically and philosophical.
E.g. I have justified why 'humans killing of humans' is evil - genocide, mass murder, and the likes are evil.
2 That our moral concern should be only for ourselves is a matter of opinion. To call that choice objective is also laughable.
This is a question of necessity, universality, rationality, wisdom and optimality - thus objective.
If we do not confine our question of morality to only the human species and whatever is optimal, then all will have to be vegans, and no humans ought to kill even germs, bacteria, viruses, dangerous insects etc. This would be stupidity!
Your claim that there is 'morality-proper', your question-begging invention of a 'moral FSK' - in sum, your whole argument for moral objectivity - for the existence of moral facts - is a joke.
Since the above view is from your shallow, narrow, dogmatic and ignorant kindergarten database, it has no tooth at all, won't bother me a bit.
Peter Holmes
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Peter Holmes »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:54 am
Peter Holmes wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:13 am
2 That our moral concern should be only for ourselves is a matter of opinion. To call that choice objective is also laughable.
This is a question of necessity, universality, rationality, wisdom and optimality - thus objective.
If we do not confine our question of morality to only the human species and whatever is optimal, then all will have to be vegans, and no humans ought to kill even germs, bacteria, viruses, dangerous insects etc. This would be stupidity!
This straw man's veganism, and is anyway a fallacious argument from supposedly undesirable consequences.

Throwing the words 'necessity, universality, rationality, wisdom and optimality' at your claim that our moral concerns should end with ourselves - merely begs the question and does nothing to establish its truth. We can use exactly the same words to describe a non-species-based morality - and with more justification, in my opinion.

As usual, you want to pass off your moral opinion as a fact.
Skepdick
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Skepdick »

Peter Holmes wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 12:25 pm Throwing the words 'necessity, universality, rationality, wisdom and optimality' at your claim that our moral concerns should end with ourselves - merely begs the question and does nothing to establish its truth.
Which truth-theory are you holding as normative and why?
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Sculptor
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Sculptor »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:12 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:33 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:32 am You ask about 'wrongness' so I am giving you the literal answer.
But what is legal is not morality-proper.
FALSE
Most people can think of laws that are immoral, or amoral. Why can't you?
You missed my point.
No, you missed the point. You always miss the point.
What I say here invalidates what you are saying.

It is a LEGAL fact, Genocide is legally 'wrong' in all sovereign nations.
That is a legal fact within a legal framework and system [FSK].
If you don't agree, show me proofs which country permit "genocide" as legal?
Since when?
And, more's the point, since when have all laws been moral?
What people think [opinions] of laws in their countries is irrelevant to the real existence of the law as a matter of fact.
Duh

I believe laws that allowed killing of humans in whatever form are not in alignment with what is morality-proper and thus need to be got rid off in the FUTURE but not now due to our current human state.
This does not advance your moral objectivity argument. What is the "right action" is nothing more than your opinion.

Blind considerations of biophilia is stupidity,
IN your opinion.
The world has moved on from your childish 19thC morality.
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Advocate »

Right action is that which intends positive effects while minimizing negative externalities.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is a right action?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Sculptor wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:19 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:12 am
Sculptor wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:33 pm
FALSE
Most people can think of laws that are immoral, or amoral. Why can't you?
You missed my point.
No, you missed the point. You always miss the point.
What I say here invalidates what you are saying.

It is a LEGAL fact, Genocide is legally 'wrong' in all sovereign nations.
That is a legal fact within a legal framework and system [FSK].
If you don't agree, show me proofs which country permit "genocide" as legal?
Since when?
And, more's the point, since when have all laws been moral?
Here you are confusing people's opinion with facts, i.e. in this case legal facts within a legal framework and system.

The point is you cannot conflate morality with law which is politics.
Note my definition of what is morality-proper
viewtopic.php?p=469799#p469799
  • Politics = the activities associated with the governance of a country or area, especially the debate between parties having power.

    Laws [political] = the system of rules which a particular country or .... recognizes as regulating the actions of its members [citizens] and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.
Thus when you conflate morality with politics and its law it shows your ignorance relative to this more serious mode of discussion.
What people think [opinions] of laws in their countries is irrelevant to the real existence of the law as a matter of fact.
Duh
Duh your ignorance what is a legal framework and system [FSK] within a sovereign nation.
I believe laws that allowed killing of humans in whatever form are not in alignment with what is morality-proper and thus need to be got rid off in the FUTURE but not now due to our current human state.
This does not advance your moral objectivity argument. What is the "right action" is nothing more than your opinion.
How come you are so ignorant?

I have argued 'no human ought to kill humans' is a natural fact within the brains of all humans independent of anyone's opinion.
As such, "not killing humans" as a fact in your brain is the "right action" which you are adopting at present, i.e. at present, you don't have any intention of killing your wife or other humans? right?
Blind considerations of biophilia is stupidity,
IN your opinion.
The world has moved on from your childish 19thC morality.
[/quote]
That 'humans ought not to kill humans' is childish? -if you think it is, that's childish thinking.

Since you are blindly and all for biophilia which means you are into zoophilia as well, i.e. that extra loving feelings for all animals.
In that case you should not take antibiotics as that will kill millions of living bacteria [good and bad].
Perhaps you should go near a person within covid19 to get infected to be a super-spreader so spread to others to assist the the covid19 virus to survive as long as possible.
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