Equity, morality

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Equity, morality

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bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:25 am
I understand what you are trying to say. I am talking that the act of a serial killer is moral for him/her so s/he should not be kept guilty for his/her action. Considering them guilty is my problem since their action is right from their point of view. The majority follow another morality and has the power and can keep them in a safe place.
So do you maybe agree with "the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's"?
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bahman
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Re: Equity, morality

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Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:38 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:25 am
I understand what you are trying to say. I am talking that the act of a serial killer is moral for him/her so s/he should not be kept guilty for his/her action. Considering them guilty is my problem since their action is right from their point of view. The majority follow another morality and has the power and can keep them in a safe place.
So do you maybe agree with "the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's"?
Yes, ultimately.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Equity, morality

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bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:58 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:38 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:25 am
I understand what you are trying to say. I am talking that the act of a serial killer is moral for him/her so s/he should not be kept guilty for his/her action. Considering them guilty is my problem since their action is right from their point of view. The majority follow another morality and has the power and can keep them in a safe place.
So do you maybe agree with "the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's"?
Yes, ultimately.
I don't agree with that. Would you say that it's a foundational disposition for you more or less, or is there some reason you feel that the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's?
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bahman
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Re: Equity, morality

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Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:00 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:58 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:38 am
So do you maybe agree with "the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's"?
Yes, ultimately.
I don't agree with that. Would you say that it's a foundational disposition for you more or less, or is there some reason you feel that the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's?
What I feel is irrelevant. I have to put myself in the shoes of the murderer to see how s/he feels when I want to make a proper judgment about him/her.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Equity, morality

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bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:09 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:00 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:58 am
Yes, ultimately.
I don't agree with that. Would you say that it's a foundational disposition for you more or less, or is there some reason you feel that the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's?
What I feel is irrelevant. I have to put myself in the shoes of the murderer to see how s/he feels when I want to make a proper judgment about him/her.
"the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's" is nothing other than a way that one can feel about what the approach should be. So you can't say that what you feel is irrelevant. If you agree with it, that is how you feel about it.
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bahman
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Re: Equity, morality

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Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:07 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:09 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:00 am
I don't agree with that. Would you say that it's a foundational disposition for you more or less, or is there some reason you feel that the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's?
What I feel is irrelevant. I have to put myself in the shoes of the murderer to see how s/he feels when I want to make a proper judgment about him/her.
"the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's" is nothing other than a way that one can feel about what the approach should be. So you can't say that what you feel is irrelevant. If you agree with it, that is how you feel about it.
If what you said was correct then I should consider the murder guilty which should not as I discussed it. I feel bad when a person is killed though.
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Re: Equity, morality

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bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:43 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:07 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:09 am
What I feel is irrelevant. I have to put myself in the shoes of the murderer to see how s/he feels when I want to make a proper judgment about him/her.
"the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's" is nothing other than a way that one can feel about what the approach should be. So you can't say that what you feel is irrelevant. If you agree with it, that is how you feel about it.
If what you said was correct then I should consider the murder guilty which should not as I discussed it. I feel bad when a person is killed though.
This comment makes no sense to me.
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bahman
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Re: Equity, morality

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:26 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:43 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:07 am
"the consequences of any behavior should always be in accord with the actor's moral views, and no one else's" is nothing other than a way that one can feel about what the approach should be. So you can't say that what you feel is irrelevant. If you agree with it, that is how you feel about it.
If what you said was correct then I should consider the murder guilty which should not as I discussed it. I feel bad when a person is killed though.
This comment makes no sense to me.
Is a murderer guilty for killing a person?
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Equity, morality

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bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:46 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:26 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:43 am
If what you said was correct then I should consider the murder guilty which should not as I discussed it. I feel bad when a person is killed though.
This comment makes no sense to me.
Is a murderer guilty for killing a person?
Are they guilty in the sense of "did they kill a person" do you mean? Yes, of course.

Or are you asking if they're guilty in the sense of violating a law that they'll be punished for? Aside from the fact that "murder" conventionally denotes "illegal killing," it just depends on the laws a society has.
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Re: Equity, morality

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:22 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:46 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:26 am

This comment makes no sense to me.
Is a murderer guilty for killing a person?
Are they guilty in the sense of "did they kill a person" do you mean? Yes, of course.

Or are you asking if they're guilty in the sense of violating a law that they'll be punished for? Aside from the fact that "murder" conventionally denotes "illegal killing," it just depends on the laws a society has.
I mean they haven't done an immoral act but an offense one.
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Re: Equity, morality

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:40 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:22 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:46 am
Is a murderer guilty for killing a person?
Are they guilty in the sense of "did they kill a person" do you mean? Yes, of course.

Or are you asking if they're guilty in the sense of violating a law that they'll be punished for? Aside from the fact that "murder" conventionally denotes "illegal killing," it just depends on the laws a society has.
I mean they haven't done an immoral act but an offense one.
What it amounts to to do an immoral act to S ("moral"/"immoral" is always to someone) is that S doesn't approve of the interpersonal behavior in question. Whether any act is moral or immoral depends on who we ask.
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Re: Equity, morality

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:39 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:40 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:22 am
Are they guilty in the sense of "did they kill a person" do you mean? Yes, of course.

Or are you asking if they're guilty in the sense of violating a law that they'll be punished for? Aside from the fact that "murder" conventionally denotes "illegal killing," it just depends on the laws a society has.
I mean they haven't done an immoral act but an offense one.
What it amounts to to do an immoral act to S ("moral"/"immoral" is always to someone) is that S doesn't approve of the interpersonal behavior in question. Whether any act is moral or immoral depends on who we ask.
I agree.
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Re: Equity, morality

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:41 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:39 am
bahman wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:40 pm
I mean they haven't done an immoral act but an offense one.
What it amounts to to do an immoral act to S ("moral"/"immoral" is always to someone) is that S doesn't approve of the interpersonal behavior in question. Whether any act is moral or immoral depends on who we ask.
I agree.
So killing a person is going to be an immoral act in the opinion of many people.
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bahman
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Re: Equity, morality

Post by bahman »

Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:44 am
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:41 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:39 am

What it amounts to to do an immoral act to S ("moral"/"immoral" is always to someone) is that S doesn't approve of the interpersonal behavior in question. Whether any act is moral or immoral depends on who we ask.
I agree.
So killing a person is going to be an immoral act in the opinion of many people.
Of course. But people have no right to call the murderer guilty. In fact, any individual would do what a murderer does if s/he is in the same circumstances.
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Re: Equity, morality

Post by Terrapin Station »

bahman wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:54 am
Terrapin Station wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:44 am
bahman wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:41 am
I agree.
So killing a person is going to be an immoral act in the opinion of many people.
Of course. But people have no right to call the murderer guilty. In fact, any individual would do what a murderer does if s/he is in the same circumstances.
We create rights. So we do have a right to call a murderer guilty, because we created the right to do so.
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