What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Terrapin Station
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:23 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:19 pm "boundary condition" of?
Of what separates those who "are programmed to survive" vs those who "are not".

Classification. Always.
Oh. The "boundary" would be if they're programmed to survive (of course) given how Veritas would characterize that if he's not simply saying that humans survive until they die.
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:40 pm Oh. The "boundary" would be if they're programmed to survive (of course) given how Veritas would characterize that if he's not simply saying that humans survive until they die.
Trivially everybody survives until they die.
Non-trivially the duration of time between "birth" and "death" is increasing.

Statistically.
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:43 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:40 pm Oh. The "boundary" would be if they're programmed to survive (of course) given how Veritas would characterize that if he's not simply saying that humans survive until they die.
Trivially everybody survives until they die.
Exactly. Hence a characterization where "Humans are programmed to survive until they die" would be the case.
Non-trivially the duration of time between "birth" and "death" is increasing.

Statistically.
Cool. If only that had something to do with saying that humans are "programmed to survive." (And only if it weren't just your personal fantasizing/imaginings.)
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:45 pm Exactly. Hence a characterization where "Humans are programmed to survive until they die" would be the case.
In a reductionist interpretation. Are you a reductionist?
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:45 pm Cool. If only that had something to do with saying that humans are "programmed to survive." (And only if it weren't just your personal fantasizing/imaginings.)
It has "something to do" with it if you interpret it charitably/holistically.

Human longevity is increasing.

It's not a constant.
it's not decreasing.
it's increasing.

Why? Because humans are programmed to survive... And so we do. And we are getting better and better at it.

Now, it may not be true universally, but universals are a fool's errand.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:47 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:45 pm Exactly. Hence a characterization where "Humans are programmed to survive until they die" would be the case.
In a reductionist interpretation. Are you a reductionist?
I have no idea. What definition of "reductionist" do you use? It's not a term I ever use personally. I don't care if anyone is a "reductionist" or not.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:45 pm Cool. If only that had something to do with saying that humans are "programmed to survive." (And only if it weren't just your personal fantasizing/imaginings.)
It has "something to do" with it if you interpret it charitably/holistically.
A charitable interpretation wouldn't be that you have a view that you don't actually have, would it? You think that you can't observe anything external to yourself, no? So a charitable interpretation should interpret what you say in that context.
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:50 pm I have no idea. What definition of "reductionist" do you use? It's not a term I ever use personally. I don't care if anyone is a "reductionist" or not.
Reductionist: somebody who interprets "Humans are programmed to survive until they die" as a trivial truth.
Non-reductionist" somebody who interprets "Humans are programmed to survive until they die as a non-trivial truth.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:50 pm A charitable interpretation wouldn't be that you have a view that you don't actually have, would it?
A charitable interpretation would be that your view/belief is more complete than the words you are reading.
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:50 pm You think that you can't observe anything external to yourself, no?
Que?
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:54 pm Reductionist: somebody who interprets "Humans are programmed to survive until they die" as a trivial truth.
Okay, so then I'm not a reductionist by that criterion. I didn't interpret it any particular way. I was just being charitable with respect to what he might be saying, so that the interpretation would make it true rather than false. That's the whole idea of charity re interpretation.
A charitable interpretation would be that your view/belief is more complete than the words you are reading.
Sure but not that it's other than what I'm reading.
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:03 pm Sure but not that it's other than what I'm reading.
My beliefs are always other than what you are reading.

Words are expressions. I could express my beliefs in many different ways.
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:05 pm My beliefs are always other than what you are reading.
Maybe try writing something that's better-correlated to your beliefs then?
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

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Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:06 pm Maybe try writing something that's better-correlated to your beliefs then?
No... my writing correlates with my beliefs. But my beliefs are always something other than what YOU are reading.

Apparently they teach understanding in philosophy 101 and misunderstanding at PhD level...
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

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Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:09 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:06 pm Maybe try writing something that's better-correlated to your beliefs then?
No... my writing correlates with my beliefs. But my beliefs are always something other than what YOU are reading.

Apparently they teach understanding in philosophy 101 and misunderstanding at PhD level...
We're not being overly literal here again are we?
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:10 pm We're not being overly literal here again are we?
Or not literal enough.
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Skepdick wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:11 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:10 pm We're not being overly literal here again are we?
Or not literal enough.
Is it really possible to be literal, though?
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Post by Skepdick »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:32 pm Is it really possible to be literal, though?
Hence: not literal enough.

There's no semantic closure in communication.
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Re: What Does "Objective" Mean With Respect to Morality?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Terrapin Station wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:07 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:26 am As I had stated "ALL humans are "programmed" to survive till the inevitable of mortality." That is human nature.
What is false about that "purpose"?
Is this just another way of saying that "human individuals survive until they die"?
What you stated above is correct but too plain.
My proposition is with the word 'programmed" to ensure the human individuals survive till the inevitability of mortality.
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