What Good Is Your Morality? No Good!

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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henry quirk
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Re: What Good Is Your Morality? No Good!

Post by henry quirk »

If you say so, but how is what is, "between men," not a, "relationship" between them?

I suppose it is: between men, among men...relational


So the purpose of morality is to assure a society is a free one. Is that right?

yes


I have no intention of arguing with your Henry.

yeah you do... ;)


I really want to understand what you mean.

which ought to be easy: I'm the most simple-minded guy in the place

I'm direct, plain-spoken, I don't pussy-foot, my notions aren't subtle


So thanks for the straightforward answers. It's a rare commodity around here.

that's cuz this place is full of rarified thinkin': heads way up there in the clouds with the angels...and the lack of atmosphere
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: RC

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

RCSaunders wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:02 pm
henry quirk wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:38 pm Morality (mine anyway) makes for civilization and fair transaction among men, and, it concretely draws the line between men.

As I say: the solitary has no need for morality and the ideal world has no need for moral codification; most of us aren't alone and the world is far from ideal.
Not sure I understand. I don't want to assume so please correct me if I get it wrong. You regard morality as some kind of social thing. Is that right?
Morality is not specific to societies of large groups but applicable if there are more than one person, a small group and to humanity.

Morality [less active at present] like the sex drive [most active] is inherent in all humans.
If there in only one person there is no sex between two persons, hetro- or homo-.
It is the same with Morality, if there is only one person, there is no need for morality between people as far as own_ness, slavery and other related issues are concern.

However there are other moral issues for the individual alone, e.g. suicide [on assumption there are still people living from the isolated person].

So the purpose of morality would only pertain to how individuals acted in relation to others. Is that right?
Yes, in terms of moral acts but note the exception above.
Would you go so far as to say the purpose of morality was to assure that a society was a good one?
Yes, 'good' in terms of the individual, society, humanity and the human species.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What Good Is Your Morality? No Good!

Post by RCSaunders »

henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:11 am I have no intention of arguing with your Henry.

yeah you do... ;)
If I were going to argue with anyone, it would be you, because you are honest and reasonable, but I really do not like arguing for its own sake, and never on a personal level, because I'm only interested in ideas, not what people believe or think themselves, and I especially don't care what they think about me.

In this particular case I really do not intend to argue with you at all.
henry quirk wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:11 am I really want to understand what you mean.

which ought to be easy: I'm the most simple-minded guy in the place

I'm direct, plain-spoken, I don't pussy-foot, my notions aren't subtle
Yes you are and I appreciate it.
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henry quirk
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RC

Post by henry quirk »

I really do not like arguing for its own sake

me neither

it's for all the meaningless, purposeless, kvetchin' that I put lace and veg in my penalty box

two keister aches who can rot there

it give me enormous pleasure, when I see their posts, to read...

currently on your ignore list

but, arguin' with purpose, to communicate, to advocate, to persuade: I don't mind that kind of tussle
Gary Childress
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Re: What Good Is Your Morality? No Good!

Post by Gary Childress »

RCSaunders wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:37 pm I've been following all the debates about morality in recent months and have come to the conclusion that what is called morality is a totally useless concept of no value whatsoever to anyone's life.

With rare exception moral codes are all nothing but prohibitions and lists of what one must not do: don't murder, don't rape, don't assault others, don't be violent, don't steal, don't lie, don't have an abortion, don't enslave others, don't vandalize, don't abuse nature, don't abuse animals, don't hate, don't do drugs, don't drink and drive, don't break the law, don't spit, don't pick your nose, don't go out without your mask on--don't, don't don't!

For any human being who wants to know how to live their life successfully in this world, such codes are absolutely useless. What one wants to know is not what not to do, but what to do.

Life is not evading evil, life is doing good. Life is doing and achieving and becoming something. Your moral codes only address what not to do and what not to be, without a hint of what one must to do actually achieve or accomplish anything of any real importance or value. Your so-called moral codes are useless.

If the entire world should adopt any of your moral codes and live by them, the entire race would be dead in a week. No one would do anything, "morally wrong"--but they would also do nothing of any value, like productive work. Why would they since nothing of value is morally required?
How would "don't murder" (for example) prevent one from doing something of value such as producing an automobile engine (for example)? Are you suggesting something like the protestant work ethic where if one isn't doing something "productive" one is being immoral?
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RCSaunders
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Re: What Good Is Your Morality? No Good!

Post by RCSaunders »

Gary Childress wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:48 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:37 pm I've been following all the debates about morality in recent months and have come to the conclusion that what is called morality is a totally useless concept of no value whatsoever to anyone's life.

With rare exception moral codes are all nothing but prohibitions and lists of what one must not do: don't murder, don't rape, don't assault others, don't be violent, don't steal, don't lie, don't have an abortion, don't enslave others, don't vandalize, don't abuse nature, don't abuse animals, don't hate, don't do drugs, don't drink and drive, don't break the law, don't spit, don't pick your nose, don't go out without your mask on--don't, don't don't!

For any human being who wants to know how to live their life successfully in this world, such codes are absolutely useless. What one wants to know is not what not to do, but what to do.

Life is not evading evil, life is doing good. Life is doing and achieving and becoming something. Your moral codes only address what not to do and what not to be, without a hint of what one must to do actually achieve or accomplish anything of any real importance or value. Your so-called moral codes are useless.

If the entire world should adopt any of your moral codes and live by them, the entire race would be dead in a week. No one would do anything, "morally wrong"--but they would also do nothing of any value, like productive work. Why would they since nothing of value is morally required?
How would "don't murder" (for example) prevent one from doing something of value such as producing an automobile engine (for example)? Are you suggesting something like the protestant work ethic where if one isn't doing something "productive" one is being immoral?
Have you been following this thread? All moral codes are at best are useless, and most are actually wrong and dangerous. I am taking an extreme example of someone attempting to live by principles that require nothing but NOT doing things.

I don't care what anyone calls the principles they live by, "ethics," "morals," the, "way," or anything else. Living is doing. Of course there are going to be things that are bad for me to do. What I want to know, and have to know, in order live is what kind of things I must do to live. A list of things not to do does not tell me how to live anymore than a list of things not to put in my bread can tell me how to make bread or a list of routes not take can tell me how to reach a destination.

If your whole life consists of evading all the things your moral code forbids, you will die. Unless you do something to provide yourself with the things your life requires it won't matter what you don't do. If you are busy doing all the kinds of things you must do to live, you will have neither the time or inclination to do those things that would be bad for you, but no moral code of don'ts can tell you that.
Gary Childress
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Re: What Good Is Your Morality? No Good!

Post by Gary Childress »

RCSaunders wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:34 pm
Gary Childress wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:48 pm
RCSaunders wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:37 pm I've been following all the debates about morality in recent months and have come to the conclusion that what is called morality is a totally useless concept of no value whatsoever to anyone's life.

With rare exception moral codes are all nothing but prohibitions and lists of what one must not do: don't murder, don't rape, don't assault others, don't be violent, don't steal, don't lie, don't have an abortion, don't enslave others, don't vandalize, don't abuse nature, don't abuse animals, don't hate, don't do drugs, don't drink and drive, don't break the law, don't spit, don't pick your nose, don't go out without your mask on--don't, don't don't!

For any human being who wants to know how to live their life successfully in this world, such codes are absolutely useless. What one wants to know is not what not to do, but what to do.

Life is not evading evil, life is doing good. Life is doing and achieving and becoming something. Your moral codes only address what not to do and what not to be, without a hint of what one must to do actually achieve or accomplish anything of any real importance or value. Your so-called moral codes are useless.

If the entire world should adopt any of your moral codes and live by them, the entire race would be dead in a week. No one would do anything, "morally wrong"--but they would also do nothing of any value, like productive work. Why would they since nothing of value is morally required?
How would "don't murder" (for example) prevent one from doing something of value such as producing an automobile engine (for example)? Are you suggesting something like the protestant work ethic where if one isn't doing something "productive" one is being immoral?
Have you been following this thread? All moral codes are at best are useless, and most are actually wrong and dangerous. I am taking an extreme example of someone attempting to live by principles that require nothing but NOT doing things.

I don't care what anyone calls the principles they live by, "ethics," "morals," the, "way," or anything else. Living is doing. Of course there are going to be things that are bad for me to do. What I want to know, and have to know, in order live is what kind of things I must do to live. A list of things not to do does not tell me how to live anymore than a list of things not to put in my bread can tell me how to make bread or a list of routes not take can tell me how to reach a destination.

If your whole life consists of evading all the things your moral code forbids, you will die. Unless you do something to provide yourself with the things your life requires it won't matter what you don't do. If you are busy doing all the kinds of things you must do to live, you will have neither the time or inclination to do those things that would be bad for you, but no moral code of don'ts can tell you that.
OK. Whatever. I'm tired of arguing with you. Say whatever you want.
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RCSaunders
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Re: What Good Is Your Morality? No Good!

Post by RCSaunders »

Gary Childress wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:24 pm OK. Whatever. I'm tired of arguing with you. Say whatever you want.
That's fine, but don't be frustrated just because I disagree with you (or anyone else does). See my comment to you here.
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