This...
Peter Holmes wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:40 pm
uwot wrote: ↑Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:17 pm
What are the 'moral facts' about abortion? Or eating meat? Euthanasia, assassination, demanding that people wear face masks? The empirical evidence is quite clearly that people have radically different views. The only thing analogous to dropped things falling, which everyone can see, is that there are dead bodies involved.
Nicely put. And excellent questions, which moral realists and objectivists can't answer coherently. (I'd add capital punishment to the mix.)
Any fact they offer doesn't entail a moral claim, so negating the moral claim doesn't produce a contradiction. (Refuting examples welcome.)
And any moral claim offered to justify a moral claim just pushes the question back: if x is morally wrong because y is morally wrong, why is y morally wrong?
Question: What are the facts about abortion?
Answer?: Well, one fact about abortion is that it's [morally wrong / not morally wrong].
That answer is ridiculous, and only a moral objectivist could think otherwise.
...was posted elsewhere. Rather than answer there (I don't agree with VA's reasonin', but I don't care enough to get mixed up in debate over it) I've imported it.
Let's get to work...
I'm a moral realist: that is, I believe there is a moral fact that can be derived from fact. My reasoning, my statement, is the opening post. Go read it.
abortion?
If a person belongs to himself (not as opinion, but as inherent quality) then it's wrong to leash him, use him as resource, or dispose of him. All the biological machinery we associate with a human person is in place in lil fetus-person by week 12 of pregnancy. Before that we have complexifyin' human cells. Full disclosure: as a deist I don't think we ought to be flushin' those human cells down the shitter either, but that's my religion which isn't about (obvious) fact. So: abort them cells; give birth to that person.
eating meat?
If morality is all about the rightness or wrongness of a man's intent, his choices, his actions and conduct, as he interacts with, or impinges on, another man (person), then this is a non-brainer. Don't eat people. Is a chicken a person? Is a horse a person? If yes, it's wrong to eat them. If no, then eat hearty.
I expect some one to ask
what's a person?
If the question is asked, we can dive in. For now, for this (I think)
coherent response, I'll assume the reader
knows it when he sees it..
Euthanasia
If Lee wants to die then
he is his to end. He can do the deed himself or enlist willing aid. Now, understand: I think it's a bad choice. There's an agenda at play to make death into a solution rather than an inevitability. I would, as Lee were willin' to listen, try and persuade him to not off himself. But, if he were of sound mind (and yeah, sound minds can make exceedingly bad choices) I'd leave him be to do the irrevocable.
assassination
Killin' a good man, one who's done no wrong, is wrong. Killin' a tyrant who demonstrably is responsible for enslavin' or killin' folks, well, that's public service.
demanding that people wear face masks?
When the evidence is flimsy that mask-wearin' actually does anything other than make the wearer uncomfortable: then the worried ought to mask up, or stay home, and leave other folks alone. If you wanna hobble a person, demonstrate in an overwhelming way why he should abide. If you can't, you're bein' an immoral schmuck for, in effect, tryin' to leash the other guy.
capital punishment
If a man belongs to himself, if his life, liberty, and property are his, then when another deprives, in part or whole, that man of his life, liberty, or property, that other forfeits commensurately. Havin' said that: I'm no fan of state-executions. Seems to me: if you take from me,
I ought to take from you. And If I can't then the willin' & ready proxy
of my choice ought to rebalance the scales. That proxy could be the state, but it shouldn't have to be.
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Any one is welcome to comment or critique except for Pete. Sorry, guy but nuthin' I've posted here is startling or new. It's the same stuff you've dismissed before. So, do us both a favor: pretend you've read it, rejected it and pretend I've said
I don't give a flip what you think.
