OUGHT from IS is Possible

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Age
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Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by Age » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:45 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:47 am
Age wrote:
IF however you are NOT fully OPEN and Honest with me then I have NO intention of SHOWING you these things
So why are you showing me these things then given how I am not as fully open and honest as I really could be
Do you even KNOW what 'these things' actually ARE referring to?

IF you are unsure, and have once again ASSUMED WRONGLY, which appears to be the case here again, then I have NO intention of SHOWING you WHERE, WHEN, HOW and WHY you are WRONG. This is WHAT 'these things' refers to.

For example, you ARE WRONG in asking me, WHY am I showing you 'these things'. You are WRONG in asking me this because I very simply am NOT showing you 'these things' at all.

What I am just SHOWING IS that you are NOT yet fully OPEN and Honest.

I am NOT going to even start SHOWING you WHERE, WHEN, HOW, and WHY you are WRONG until you start SHOWING that you are somewhat OPEN and Honest.

The more OPEN and Honest you are with me, then the more Truth of things I will REVEAL to you.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:47 am
Do you just think that I am being as fully open and honest with you as I could be or is there some other reason
You are a long way off being FULLY OPEN and honest with me.

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:53 am

Age wrote:
If you are unsure of some thing then why not just ask a clarifying question instead
Why not read the question again so that you may better understand what is being asked
Why not read the question with a truly open mind so that you cannot possibly be unsure
Why not just read the thread without actually bothering to post any of your own opinions

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:00 am

Age wrote:
You are a long way off being FULLY OPEN and honest with me
Since we both agree on this then why are you actually engaging with me here
Are you going to tell me what your reason for doing so is or am I not to know

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:04 am

Age wrote:
You are WRONG in asking me this because I very simply am NOT showing you these things at all
What exactly are these things that you are not at all showing me now
Have you never even once mentioned these things here on the forum

Age
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by Age » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:06 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:54 am
Age wrote:
Staying on topic and answering the question openly AND honestly would be very much appreciated
But I have answered all of your questions here as openly and honestly as I can
I wrote that statement specifically DIRECTLY after I posed a clarifying question to you. So what do you do? You miss or dismiss it completely, and reply as though it is in relation to some thing else.

Because you do NOT quote EVERY thing I say, and only add some things, then as it appears you are also MISSING what else I am saying.

Also, do you really expect us to accept that you have answered "ALL of my questions", especially considering that you have said that you have not and will not answer them ALL and this because you do not have the so called "mental energy" to?

Using the "mental energy" to separate this quoted part from what it was in actual reference to and then answering it the way you have here, as though you are trying to deflect away from the issue or trying to twist things around from what I have been pointing out surely some might see as taking more so called "mental energy" than it would to just leave the quote in with the question and just answer the actual question that it was referring to.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:54 am
I cannot do anything else and I dont know what more there is that I should do
Are you absolutely sure that you can not do any thing else? I KNOW, however, there is NOTHING that you "should" do.

But, IF you seriously want to learn more and understand what I say better, then answering EVERY group of words I write that has a question mark at the end, would help YOU considerably.

Human beings, however, have a tendency to ASSUME that when a question is posed to them, even when it is just an OPEN question asked for clarification, then some thing is being proposed or claimed, which could NOT any further from the Truth in regards to me and what I write.

But when I ask an OBVIOUS question, for example, and then directly afterwards write the words:
Staying on topic and answering the question openly AND honestly would be very much appreciated even this gets taken out of context and responded completely off topic.

It is like no matter how precise I try to write, whatever I say just gets missed, dismissed, taken out of context, misinterpreted, or misunderstood anyway.

Even when I use a word like 'question' in my clarifying question, I get a response back like;
But I have answered all of your questions here as openly and honestly as I can Besides the obvious FACT that the response is FALSE and WRONG, the actual words I write are NOT being read. This can be clearly SEEN in the response I got.

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:10 am

Age wrote:
But how much of what you say is an expressed opinion

And when and how will I KNOW the difference
All my opinion is expressed but some will be more so than other opinion will be
I cannot be any more specific than that so I cannot really answer that question

surreptitious57
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:19 am

Age wrote:
But IF you seriously want to learn more and understand what I say better then answering EVERY
group of words I write that has a question mark at the end would help YOU considerably
Even better would be to answer every question as openly and honestly as you possibly can
That is not going to happen however if you are not as fully open and honest as you can be

Age
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Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by Age » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:20 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:06 am
Age wrote:
So are your completely wrong words here an irrefutable FACT or just some thing which could be false
No they are not an irrefutable fact but simply my opinion based upon the very limited knowledge that I have
Other than facts that we both agree on everything I say here could be wrong or false either partly or wholly
But WHY ASSUME that just because I agree with you on some thing that it is then a fact?

Just because I agree with some thing, to me, still means that it could be Wrong, False, and/or Incorrect.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:06 am
This is now the second time that I have stated this but how many more times will I have to do so
As many times as it takes until you clarify once and for all that when you write some thing like; "There are many minds" AND "The only things that exist are physical things" whether these are just your opinions, which could be wrong, false, and/or incorrect, or whether you see them as being more than just an opinion, which could be wrong, false, and/or incorrect?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:06 am
I say things which could either be true or false even though I think they are true when I say them
Does this apply for EVERY thing you write?

I just realized that maybe the reason you do NOT answer ALL of my questions, and some times just ASSUME some thing, which I am not at all, instead, is because you are incapable of seeing the question mark at the end of those groups of words that I write.

I will NOT ask you to clarify this because I KNOW it is of no real importance and because you do not like clarifying questions in relation to this anyway.

The reason I am curious about this is because it would then explain WHY you are making it harder for the readers to keep track of our discussions fully and making it harder for me to look back over and find particular things in our discussions.

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:26 am

Age wrote:
It is like no matter how precise I try to write whatever I say just gets missed
dismissed taken out of context misinterpreted or misunderstood anyway
Maybe I could try to be as open and honest as possible when answering some of your questions
But I have a long way to go yet before I am truly open and honest with you here on the forum

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:35 am

Age wrote:
As many times as it takes until you clarify once and for all that when you write some thing like There are many minds AND The only things
that exist are physical things whether these are just your opinions which could be wrong false and / or incorrect or whether you see them
as being more than just an opinion which could be wrong false and / or incorrect ?
They could be false and wrong and incorrect but they are only an opinion and nothing else
They could be false and wrong and incorrect but they are only an opinion and nothing else

Age
Posts: 3601
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by Age » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:36 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am
Age wrote:
How would you KNOW what could be true OR what could be false if you are NOT open in the first place

To only be able to KNOW what could be true AND what could false one would NEED to KNOW what IS true and what IS false

until then one NEEDS to be OPEN to ALL possibilities OBVIOUSLY

If one is NOT open to ALL possibilities then that one is CLOSED OBVIOUSLY

If you ALREADY KNOW what could be false then you ALREADY KNOW what MUST BE True

For example could one Mind be false
I do not know what is true or false I only think I know
But you are the one who has just stated that 'you are not open to any possibility that could be false'.

And, to KNOW what 'could be false', then you would NEED to KNOW 'what is true' and/or 'what is false'.

Can you see what I was getting at?

Or, am I misunderstanding what you wrote and meant?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am
I think I am more detached rather than open or closed minded
Can you explain the difference to me again.

I apologize. I do NOT always recall what you mean exactly, by absolutely every thing you say. This is the trouble when communicating in a language where the ones communicating have and use different definitions.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 am
I have no idea if a Mind is true or false I do not even know what a Mind is
Great and perfect point, which I have been alluding to for ages now.

Human beings will say some thing, like "there are many minds", the "human mind", "we have our own mind", "open or closed minded", and so on and so on, but then when questioned for clarification about what this 'mind' thing is exactly, which they themselves are talking about, then it is discovered that actually that human beings has NO actual idea what they are talking about because they do not even actually KNOW what the 'Mind' IS at all anyway.

Also, did you notice how in one sentence you are saying that you think you are some thing rather than another 'thing', but in your immediate following sentence you then say that you do not even know what that other 'thing' is, which you just stated that you think you are not really that 'thing'?

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:44 am

Age wrote:
I just realized that maybe the reason you do NOT answer ALL of my questions and some times just ASSUME some thing which I
am not at all instead is because you are incapable of seeing the question mark at the end of those groups of words that I write

I will NOT ask you to clarify this because I KNOW it is of no real importance and because you do not like clarifying questions in
relation to this anyway
The reason why I do not answer ALL of your questions is not because I cannot see the question mark at the end of every sentence
The question mark is the same at the end of all of them so if I can see one of them then I can see all of them and so obviously do

Age
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by Age » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:48 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:42 am
Age wrote:
Also are you suggesting that you do not propose any thing as it is the absolute Truth
I am not merely suggesting it but stating it absolutely.
Okay. That is what one of my clarifying questions previously was in relation to. If you had answered that question before and a while ago now, then I would have already known what I now know.

Nothing I propose is the absolute truth because I dont even know what the absolute truth is

Fair enough. But, by the way, to find out what the actual absolute Truth is, is not hard at all.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:42 am
I think some things are more likely to be true than others but that is the best that I can say
Do you, for example, think that 'many minds' is more likely to be true then just 'one Mind'?

If yes, then WHY?

Also, when you write and say; "I am open to any possibility that could be true but not to any that could be false".

This then implies that you KNOW what or what not 'could be false'. If you KNOW what 'could be false' or 'what not could be false', then this implies conversely that you KNOW 'what is false and is true'.

Being only open to some things is NOT being FULLY OPEN.

And only from being FULLY OPEN is when the actual and real Truth of things becomes known or is revealed.

Does this make sense, to you?

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:54 am

Age wrote:
But you are the one who has just stated that you are not open to any possibility that could be false
That was my opinion when I wrote it but it is no longer my opinion now but it could become so once again
I am not absolutely certain about anything anymore so this is why there may be contradiction in what I say

surreptitious57
Posts: 3633
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: OUGHT from IS is Possible

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:04 am

Age wrote:
Do you for example think that many minds is more likely to be true than just one Mind
I would first need to know what a Mind is and whether or not it exists before I could actually answer this
So what exactly is one and why do you think it exists [ if you do ] and is there any evidence that it does
Last edited by surreptitious57 on Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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