How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Age
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:51 am
Age wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:17 am
Yes, very simply and easily.

'self' is the the invisible thoughts and emotions within a body, of which there are many.

What knows this is Thy True Self. There is only One True Self. This 'Self' is the One, and only, Mind, which is always OPEN.

The OPEN Mind is what allows human beings to continually learn and discover, more and anew.

This ability to learn, understand, and reason, any thing and every thing, combined with the human brain, which is able to grasp and store amazing amounts of knowledge/information, allows human beings to keep progressing/evolving into finally discovering and knowing things like, Who 'I' am, How the Universe works, What is the meaning of Life, Itself, et cetera, et cetera.

I'm always intrigued by this 'self' concept...where does it originate?...do you have any clear answers to the question, ''where does the actual 'self' idea originate?''.. is it real fact or just a fictional character?

.
it (the self) is just a fictional character. Although it is made up of and made out of real things, that is; invisible thoughts and emotions. it is also only who 'we' think 'we' are, when we say things like; "I am ...". 'We' just being the individual invisible thinking, within each human body, or, one of the individual invisible set of thoughts, within one human body.

Where this idea originated from is from past generations telling the younger ones, incorrectly, who they are, through examples like; "I am a doctor", "I am a welder", "I am a mother", "I am an american", "I am a muslim", et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. This, false, idea carries on through younger human beings believing that they are "A boy", "A student", "A child", et cetera, et cetera., who then grow up to believe that they are some thing also, and then repeating the exact same false "I" concept. Repeating the process over and over again.

The exact date and time this process originated, and the exact human body from where it originated, is not known to the thoughts within this human body, but the process of believing the false 'I' has originated, and continues on.

This 'self' concept is usually just a reflection of what the body experiences - is experiencing or has experienced.

The answers are clear within this body, but there may need to be much more clarification to make the answers clearer within other bodies.
Belinda
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:51 am
Age wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:17 am
Yes, very simply and easily.

'self' is the the invisible thoughts and emotions within a body, of which there are many.

What knows this is Thy True Self. There is only One True Self. This 'Self' is the One, and only, Mind, which is always OPEN.

The OPEN Mind is what allows human beings to continually learn and discover, more and anew.

This ability to learn, understand, and reason, any thing and every thing, combined with the human brain, which is able to grasp and store amazing amounts of knowledge/information, allows human beings to keep progressing/evolving into finally discovering and knowing things like, Who 'I' am, How the Universe works, What is the meaning of Life, Itself, et cetera, et cetera.

I'm always intrigued by this 'self' concept...where does it originate?...do you have any clear answers to the question, ''where does the actual 'self' idea originate?''.. is it real fact or just a fictional character?

.
Every animal with a central nervous system has an inner life. Possibly human alone, and only humans who are neither asleep nor psychotic, have insight that they have an inner life. For instance most dreamers lack this insight that they are selves.
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Sculptor
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Sculptor »

Age wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:16 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:28 pm You mean philosophy forums, on earth?
Is that a question or a statement?
A question, of course.

There is a question mark at the end of it, but it is written as a statement.

If it is a question, then the answer is no. I mean what I said.
What "no"?
Do you mean you do not endeavour to write as truthfully as possible in philosphy forums?
Or only not , on earth?
If it is a statement, then you are wrong. I mean what I said.
Then you were not talking about philosophy forums?
Age
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Age »

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:19 pm
Age wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:16 am
Sculptor wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:28 pm You mean philosophy forums, on earth?
Is that a question or a statement?
A question, of course.
What do you mean by 'of course'?

If I wrote, "you are wrong?" that is not proposed as a question?

Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:19 pm
There is a question mark at the end of it, but it is written as a statement.

If it is a question, then the answer is no. I mean what I said.
What "no"?
Do you mean you do not endeavour to write as truthfully as possible in philosphy forums?
Or only not , on earth?
Neither.

I meant exactly what I said, and did not mean how you reworded it.

When I am writing in a philosophy forum, then I endeavor to write as truthfully and as accurately as possible.

If i happen to be in a airplane or spaceship, and not on earth, when I am writing in a philosophy forum, then I endeavor to write as truthfully and as accurately as possible.
Sculptor wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:19 pm
If it is a statement, then you are wrong. I mean what I said.
Then you were not talking about philosophy forums?
Again, there is a question mark at the end, but, to me, this sentence is not proposed as a question. To me, that sentence appears as being just an assumption, which obviously without clarification I would be unsure.

If you would like me to answer a question, then just pose a question, to me.
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Dontaskme
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Dontaskme »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:51 am I'm always intrigued by this 'self' concept...where does it originate?...do you have any clear answers to the question, ''where does the actual 'self' idea originate?''.. is it real fact or just a fictional character?
Age wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:17 amit (the self) is just a fictional character. Although it is made up of and made out of real things, that is; invisible thoughts and emotions. it is also only who 'we' think 'we' are, when we say things like; "I am ...". 'We' just being the individual invisible thinking, within each human body, or, one of the individual invisible set of thoughts, within one human body.
The 'self' idea is that then, it's just an 'idea'...it's an illusory fictional attachment formed of the formless. It doesn't exist in the material sense...it doesn't exist as an actual entity in and of itself.

For the human...It's a fiction and that fiction has to be acted upon else there is no drama, or illusory play of otherness for the human. The sense of 'self' idea is also believed, for without the belief in yourself there would be no 'self' - Life has evolved this drama to play out as and through the human mind body mechanism..but it's always a fiction.
Age wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:17 amThe exact date and time this process originated, and the exact human body from where it originated, is not known to the thoughts within this human body, but the process of believing the false 'I' has originated, and continues on.
The 'self' orginates the moment you are given a name by your birth parents.
Age wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:17 amThis 'self' concept is usually just a reflection of what the body experiences - is experiencing or has experienced.

The answers are clear within this body, but there may need to be much more clarification to make the answers clearer within other bodies.
Sure, that's just about as clear as it can get..the 'self' concept is a reflection, it's a fictional character as experienced as and through the mind body mechanism.

The point is, reality is irrational in the sense that knowledge aka conceptual language artificially divides the totality of all that is into real v's unreal...in the sense that only the unreal is real...and to the sense of 'self' this idea is irrational...but it's the truth. Belief is irrational.


"us v's. them" mentality ...is in all truth nothing more that unreal v's real mentality believed to be human, it's a fictional mentation given human attributes.

We can solve all imaginary problems in society by adopting a nondual understanding of reality, but who want's to be told they are a fictional character?

.

.
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Dontaskme
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Dontaskme »

Belinda wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:32 am
Every animal with a central nervous system has an inner life. Possibly human alone, and only humans who are neither asleep nor psychotic, have insight that they have an inner life. For instance most dreamers lack this insight that they are selves.
The inner life or what ever you want to call the 'self' is a fictional attachement full stop. In reality there is no known SELF.

The SELF is tacit knowing. It's an incredible hallucination of light...and has about as much physical substance to it as a Rainbow.

.
Belinda
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Belinda »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:59 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:32 am
Every animal with a central nervous system has an inner life. Possibly human alone, and only humans who are neither asleep nor psychotic, have insight that they have an inner life. For instance most dreamers lack this insight that they are selves.
The inner life or what ever you want to call the 'self' is a fictional attachement full stop. In reality there is no known SELF.

The SELF is tacit knowing. It's an incredible hallucination of light...and has about as much physical substance to it as a Rainbow.

.
But unless you have the attitude that you are this fictional self, you won't remain alive to appreciate the Rainbow.
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Sculptor
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Sculptor »

Age wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:36 am If you would like me to answer a question, then just pose a question, to me.
Sorry I cannot possibly take that as an instruction since you have not used an exclamation mark which would make the sentence and imperative.

Are you autistic? Has anyone ever used the word "Asperger" in your case?
Nick_A
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Nick_A »

Age
self' is the the invisible thoughts and emotions within a body, of which there are many.

What knows this is Thy True Self. There is only One True Self. This 'Self' is the One, and only, Mind, which is always OPEN.
I disagree. You live in a machine. A dog, horse, and animal Man are living machines - creatures of reaction responding to natural and cosmic influences. To know thyself is to know your machine. We can see that in a normal Man consciousness and will dominates and uses the machine. In fallen Man, the reactive machine denies consciousness and replaces conscious will with satisfaction of desire. There is only a smaller part in you capable of consciousness now. Yet it can develop which offers our potential for conscious evolution.

Without beginning to know your machine, how it works, and why it dominates, is essential for self knowledge and those who need more than living in a machine.
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Nick_A »

Dr. Siegbert Tarrasch wrote: "Chess is a form of intellectual productiveness, therein lies, its peculiar charm. Intellectual productiveness is one of the greatest joys -if not the greatest one- of human existence. It is not everyone who can write a play, or build a bridge, or even make a good joke. But in chess everyone can, everyone must, be intellectually productive and so can share in this select delight. I have always a slight feeling of pity for the man who has no knowledge of chess, just as I would pity for the man who has no knowledge of love. Chess, like love, like music, has the power to make men happy."
Be careful not to take this us vs them concept too far. When it denies aspiration and the desire to win it can deprive a man of one of greatest delights: struggle

In chess we have the elementary struggle between the white and dark forces which can be understood as us and them. The us vs. them mentality is not evil. It only becomes evil when it manifests wrongly. Yes I know some idiotic experts in psychological PC will try to ban the game as supporting war and the us vs them mentality. We will give them a knight to remember and tell them where they can stick their bishop.
Age
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Age »

Dontaskme wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:59 am
Belinda wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:32 am
Every animal with a central nervous system has an inner life. Possibly human alone, and only humans who are neither asleep nor psychotic, have insight that they have an inner life. For instance most dreamers lack this insight that they are selves.
The inner life or what ever you want to call the 'self' is a fictional attachement full stop. In reality there is no known SELF.

The SELF is tacit knowing. It's an incredible hallucination of light...and has about as much physical substance to it as a Rainbow.

.
But I know what the Self is.

This is because I exist and I know who, and what, I am.
Age
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Age »

Sculptor wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:59 pm
Age wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:36 am If you would like me to answer a question, then just pose a question, to me.
Sorry I cannot possibly take that as an instruction since you have not used an exclamation mark which would make the sentence and imperative.

Are you autistic? Has anyone ever used the word "Asperger" in your case?
Were these questions posed not under instruction but freely of your own accord?

But anyway my answers are;

Yes.

And yes.

Are you autistic? Has anyone ever used the word "Asperger" in your case?
Age
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Age »

Nick_A wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:16 pm Age
self' is the the invisible thoughts and emotions within a body, of which there are many.

What knows this is Thy True Self. There is only One True Self. This 'Self' is the One, and only, Mind, which is always OPEN.
I disagree.
Fair enough.
Nick_A wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:16 pmYou live in a machine. A dog, horse, and animal Man are living machines - creatures of reaction responding to natural and cosmic influences. To know thyself is to know your machine. We can see that in a normal Man consciousness and will dominates and uses the machine. In fallen Man, the reactive machine denies consciousness and replaces conscious will with satisfaction of desire. There is only a smaller part in you capable of consciousness now. Yet it can develop which offers our potential for conscious evolution.

Without beginning to know your machine, how it works, and why it dominates, is essential for self knowledge and those who need more than living in a machine.
If 'you' say so. But it does not make sense to thy Self.

What is the difference between 'you' and 'animal Man'?

Who or what is a 'you', and, who or what is an 'animal Man'?

Why is 'Man' spelt with a capital 'M' when used after the word 'animal'?
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Sculptor
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Sculptor »

Age wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:05 pm
Sculptor wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:59 pm
Age wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:36 am If you would like me to answer a question, then just pose a question, to me.
Sorry I cannot possibly take that as an instruction since you have not used an exclamation mark which would make the sentence and imperative.

Are you autistic? Has anyone ever used the word "Asperger" in your case?
Were these questions posed not under instruction but freely of your own accord?

But anyway my answers are;

Yes.

And yes.

Are you autistic? Has anyone ever used the word "Asperger" in your case?
No
and
No.
I'll bear that in mind when we exchange views.
Thanks.
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Re: How can we defeat "us vs. them" mentality?

Post by Dontaskme »

Age wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:03 pm
But I know what the Self is.

This is because I exist and I know who, and what, I am.
Good for you.

As for me..The unknown known is a fictional character.

Unknowing knowns are sourced and already couched within the mystery of being...known only to the mystery itself.

There is no way to cross the horizon of the mystery that will ever evade any attempt to approach it and know it absolutely.

.
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