why is murder wrong?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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gaffo
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Re: "How are you defining the word 'murder' here?"

Post by gaffo »

Logik wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:51 am
gaffo wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:06 am this is the definition of self defense
The point is that we are now devolving into all the human nuances: language, morality and intent.

Killing is amoral. It's neither right nor wrong. It describes the mechanics/actions of ending a life. Any life. Hunters kill animals. Predators kill prey.
yes i see your point - but that "killing" is for food, be it animal or man (man of course is also an animal).

I don't think "Murder" is the same as "kiling for food". I think "muder" is killing one of your "own" (man vs man/lion vs lion/etc..........).

nor do i think "murder" is immoral by default - man (and some/most animals) have the nature when environment presents - to murder.

and so think there is a reason, via we are all (all - as in man and animals) - a product of evolution (survival) - and so "War" and Murder must have a good reason to exist within us since we are product of evolutionary survival.

Logik wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:51 am Person A killed person B. That's a factual statement. I also doesn't tell us whether the actions of person A were moral or immoral.
This nuance is often lost on people, and I often get puzzling looks when I admit that I have no reservations killing another human.
If I did have reservations I wouldn't carry a gun.
speak for yourself, i have reservations toward killing folks (and even animals - since i do not need to eat them - others kill them for me to buy their body parts at the grocery store), and toward carrying a gun - being a depresant i'd be a fool to have a gun lying around.

Logik wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:51 am I am not comfortable MURDERING another human. I am comfortable KILLING for self/person-defence.
well yes of course.

though i doubt i'd be "comfortable" killing another man, even if justified - I'd replay the event in my mind a million times questioning if i did not allow the perp a chance to surender/etc.

surviver guilt


Logik wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:51 am The distinction is too close for comfort for most people.
you think so? i never though of them the same in any way.

but that just me, you think most folks lump the two into one thing?

Logik wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:51 am So much so that many of my pacifist friends have smeared me with the same brush as a murderer.

The very idea of taking life sends shivers down their spines.
oh wow! really, i like more about this - what they say etc, if you are willing. i find that mentality odd myself, but understanding it would be welcomed.

thanks for reply!
Logik
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: "How are you defining the word 'murder' here?"

Post by Logik »

gaffo wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:45 pm yes i see your point - but that "killing" is for food, be it animal or man (man of course is also an animal).

I don't think "Murder" is the same as "kiling for food". I think "muder" is killing one of your "own" (man vs man/lion vs lion/etc..........).

nor do i think "murder" is immoral by default - man (and some/most animals) have the nature when environment presents - to murder.
In my taxonomy murder is killing.
self-defence is killing.
Hunting is killing.

The end result is that something or somebody died, while suspending further judgment/justification of the killer's reasons.

gaffo wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:45 pm and so think there is a reason, via we are all (all - as in man and animals) - a product of evolution (survival) - and so "War" and Murder must have a good reason to exist within us since we are product of evolutionary survival.
I'd say that's going too far. Societies which can never harbor trust and co-operation stand no chance in the long run.

Human psychology has this unfortunate propensity to focus on its immediate surroundings and forget about long-term problems. You can observe this simply by the disproportionate energy spent on outrage about mass murder and the zero-to-no amount of energy spent being outraged about cancer. Cancer kills MILLIONS every year. Murderers kill thousands.

Yet for some reason humans think preventing murder is more important than preventing cancer.

Of course, they are more important, but one of them is most definitely importanter.
gaffo wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:45 pm speak for yourself, i have reservations toward killing folks (and even animals - since i do not need to eat them - others kill them for me to buy their body parts at the grocery store).
So you DO need to eat the animals, but you don't want to kill them ? Ahhh. Outsourcing the dirty work :)

gaffo wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:45 pm you think so? i never though of them the same in any way.

but that just me, you think most folks lump the two into one thing?
Yes. Look at any anti-gun propaganda. Watch for the argument: "a gun was designed to kill".

Yes. It was. And killing is amoral.
gaffo wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:45 pm oh wow! really, i like more about this - what they say etc, if you are willing. i find that mentality odd myself, but understanding it would be welcomed.
They equate killing with murder. So I say "I am willing to kill" they hear "I am willing to murder". Which gives them all the platform they need to contrive an argument for their own moral superiority.
gaffo
Posts: 3716
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: "How are you defining the word 'murder' here?"

Post by gaffo »

Logik wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:05 am
So you DO need to eat the animals, but you don't want to kill them ? Ahhh. Outsourcing the dirty work :)
yes outsource please.

if not possible, i could do it myself for food, but would prefer not to.

Logik wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:05 am They equate killing with murder. So I say "I am willing to kill" they hear "I am willing to murder". Which gives them all the platform they need to contrive an argument for their own moral superiority.
they sound like unthinking bots to me - if i may say so.

thanks for reply ;-).
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