How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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prof
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:57 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by prof » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:33 am

As those who have read the proposed new paradigm for Ethics found in THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS book know, the Ethical Theory it sets forth is not oriented around the concept "action." Nor "course of action" either. Nor "consequences either;" for how does one measure a "consequence," where it starts and where it leaves off?

Instead it is concerned with a person's character. If one has developed a good character, one tends to do the right thing, and make the right decisions, most o the time. Actions follow from intentions and motives, as well as from insight as to correct priorities - and having a sense of values.

I agree with Kant that choosing not to murder, nor to wage war, is itself a choice: the right choice. {...And I definitely choose not to let my leg - or anyone else's leg - get gangrenous!}

A large number of people on this planet (excluding those with brain damage) DO NOT know their Ethics. If they did, we would not be confronted with the problems we have now -- the violence, the abuse, the mistreatment of children, the human trafficking, the drug and food addictions, and even much of the ill-health we have now. That book teaches how to have and keep Moral Health. This includes peace-of-mind, good will, readiness to be of service.

It also implies, in the USA at least, voting for people who know how to govern with The General Welfare that the U.S. Constitution speaks about in mind. By the candidate's record and /or character she has shown that she means what she sasys, and will fight to implement her words and promises.

Also part of it are these examples of ethical conduct:
Showing consideration to one's spouse, mate, or partner; giving kids choices to foster their autonomy;
being cosmopolitan.

Treasuring our habitat, and thus advocating a Green New Deal, is necessary to truly care about people.

Putting people first, things next, and rigid thinking least, is a correct ordering of priorities.
{Rigid thinking includes greed, and unrelenting focus on financial gain.}

We need to learn about the strong importance of wanting to set a shining example of living ethically.


Your views, readers....??
Last edited by prof on Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Age » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:22 am

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:13 am
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:05 am
Logik wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:24 pm

Then you are wrong.
So, are you TRYING TO suggest that you KNOW what the right and wrong definitions and meanings are for ALL words, for everyone?
I am trying to suggest that ethics is not about the right definition of words. It's about the right decision and course of action.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:05 am
If so, then this would contradict your other view that you use your OWN language, with your OWN definitions and meanings for words.
You are being small-minded. Contradictions in language does not result in harm. Indecision does.

Would you amputate a gangrenous leg? Yes or no.

Choosing not to choose is the same as choosing "No".

Therefore not-choosing is harmful.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:05 am
However, if you are not trying to suggest that, then what are you trying to suggest by stating that I am wrong?

Also, TRY explaining how I could even be wrong in regards to what I am talking about. By definition I can NOT be wrong. The only one that can be wrong is YOU because only I can accurately KNOW what I am talking about.
Would you amputate a gangrenous leg? Yes or no.

Choosing not to choose is the same as choosing "No".

Therefore not-choosing is harmful.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:05 am
If I am NOT talking about some thing, then, by definition, I am NOT talking about it. Therefore, how could even be even remotely wrong?
Would you amputate a gangrenous leg? Yes or no.

Choosing not to choose is the same as choosing "No".

Therefore not-choosing is harmful.

Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:05 am
Not that I really care but if that is what it means to you, then so what?
That is what it means to us - society. If you don't like it exit the conversation.
I am not here to convince you - I am here to tell you how it is in the real world. Or force the definition down your throat.

By force if necessary. We are so certain on the meaning that we even made sure we put it in our laws so we literally imprison doctors for negligence that leads to a patient's death.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:05 am
Do you really believe that what things mean to you MUST therefore also mean the exact same for EVERYONE on a universal scale?
I am not here to tell you what words mean.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:05 am
Why would I do a completely unnecessary thing like this?
Because that's how trolley problems work. And if the patient dies due to your dereliction of duty - we will throw you in prison.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:05 am
Expecting me to to make a list, especially after you flatly refuse to better define your OWN hypothetical situation with a list of variables seems somewhat unreasonable here.
Then don't make a list, and make a decision. The clock is ticking. The universe is never reasonable. This is all the information you have! Make a fucking choice!

Would you amputate a gangrenous leg? Yes or no.

Choosing not to choose is the same as choosing "No".
I asked you one extremely simple question, you have NOT answered it, either because you can not or will not, YET you EXPECT me to answer your most ridiculous, off point, and irrelevant questions here now.

What you are asking me has NOTHING at all to do with what I wrote to ANOTHER person, and what I was discussing, with THEM. You accused me of some thing, which I have SHOWN was completely and utterly WRONG. Do not TRY and deflect away from that and make out some thing else is going on here. We can SEE straight past what you are doing here.

Just TRY and understand what I am talking about BEFORE you ask me the most ridiculous of questions.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Age » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:25 am

prof wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:33 am
As those who have read the proposed new paradigm for Ethics found in THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS book know, the Ethical Theory it sets forth is not oriented around the concept "action." Nor "course of action" either. Nor "consequences either;" for how does one measure a "consequence," where it starts and where it leaves off? Instead it is concerned with a person's character. If one has developed a good character, one tends to do the right thing, and make the right decisions, most o the time. Actions follow from intentions and motives, as well as from insight as to correct priorities - and having a sense of values. I agree with Kant that choosing not to murder, nor to wage war, is itself a choice: the right choice. {...And I definitely choose not to let my leg - or anyone else's leg - get gangrenous!}


A large number of people on this planet (excluding those with brain damage) DO NOT know their Ethics. If they did, we would not be confronted with the problems we have now -- the violence, the abuse, the mistreatment of children, the human trafficking, the drug and food addictions, and even much of the ill-health we have now. That book teaches how to have and keep Moral Health. This includes peace-of-mind, good will, readiness to be of service.

It also implies, in the USA at least, voting for people who know how to govern with The General Welfare that the U.S. Constitution speaks about in mind. By the candidate's record and /or character she has shown that she means what she sasys, and will fight to implement her words and promises.

Showing consideration to one's spouse, mater; or partnergiving kids choices to foster their autonomy; being cosmopolitan; are also part of it. Treasuring our habitat, and thus advocating a Green Deal is necessary to truly care about people. Putting people first, things next, and rigid thinking (including greed, and unrelenting focus on financial gain) least: is a correct ordering of priorities. We need to learn about the strong importance of wanting to set a shining example of living ethically.


Your views, readers....??
Why not just live by the one lore of; Do not abuse any thing?

Could one be living any more ethically than that?

prof
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:57 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by prof » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:22 am

.

Age writes:

"Why not just live by the one lore of; Do not abuse any thing?

Could one be living any more ethically than that?"

Yes, one could. By living by what I wrote earlier - and in the most-recent post above - one would be living more ethically than just avoiding a negative concept. In each situation in which one finds himself or herself one is to be mindful of: How can I create something of value? How can I make each person in this encounter feel like a winner? How can I be better than my previous self? How can I improve and grow (morally speaking)? 8)

Rather than "do not," have the attitude: "do." Do create value.
Do innovate. Do upgrade. Do create. Above all, love!

It drives out fear. It heals. It solves problems. :) :)

I wish you all A Quality Life!!!

[To find out what that specifically means, read the book.]
THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS (2019)
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf

Questions? Comments?

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:16 am

Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:22 am
I asked you one extremely simple question, you have NOT answered it, either because you can not or will not, YET you EXPECT me to answer your most ridiculous, off point, and irrelevant questions here now.
Yes you did. And I ignored your question and I have no intention answering them.

You are trying to frame the discussion, but the universe doesn't care for your cheap parlour tricks.

Ask the universe a very simple question - see if it answers you.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:22 am
What you are asking me has NOTHING at all to do with what I wrote to ANOTHER person, and what I was discussing, with THEM. You accused me of some thing, which I have SHOWN was completely and utterly WRONG. Do not TRY and deflect away from that and make out some thing else is going on here. We can SEE straight past what you are doing here.

Just TRY and understand what I am talking about BEFORE you ask me the most ridiculous of questions.
No. You try and understand what I am talking about.

Would you amputate a gangrenous leg or not?

You have wasted 12 hours asking question. Your patient died because you couldn't make a decision.

Your indecision resulted in harm.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Age » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:28 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:16 am
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:22 am
I asked you one extremely simple question, you have NOT answered it, either because you can not or will not, YET you EXPECT me to answer your most ridiculous, off point, and irrelevant questions here now.
Yes you did. And I ignored your question and I have no intention answering them.

You are trying to frame the discussion, but the universe doesn't care for your cheap parlour tricks.

Ask the universe a very simple question - see if it answers you.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:22 am
What you are asking me has NOTHING at all to do with what I wrote to ANOTHER person, and what I was discussing, with THEM. You accused me of some thing, which I have SHOWN was completely and utterly WRONG. Do not TRY and deflect away from that and make out some thing else is going on here. We can SEE straight past what you are doing here.

Just TRY and understand what I am talking about BEFORE you ask me the most ridiculous of questions.
No. You try and understand what I am talking about.
But I was NOT talking to you about what YOU are talking about and I NEVER even wanted to either. So, I could NOT care less about what YOU are talking about, AND, I do NOT want to understand what YOU are talking about.

Can you at least understand that, what I wrote here?

If you do NOT know WHY you would choose you over ALL "others" EVERY time, or you have no intention to explain WHY or HOW you could even think such a thing let alone do it, then I really do NOT care what you say nor talk about. You have SHOWN your true self and what you think of and about "others" compared to your own self many times before but now you have just said it all here in this thread.
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:16 am
Would you amputate a gangrenous leg or not?

You have wasted 12 hours asking question. Your patient died because you couldn't make a decision.

Your indecision resulted in harm.
Maybe for the better because 'harm' is NECESSARY to fix and heal things.

I have to cause and create much 'harm' in order to fix and heal the mess and damage that you are making.

You seriously can NOT see any thing other than what appears in that head, and more concerning is that you actually BELIEVE those thoughts revolving around in that head. You are completely closed to any thing else other than what is already spinning around in that head, that your view of things is literally as narrow and as small as the thought is.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Age » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:32 pm

prof wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:22 am
.

Age writes:

"Why not just live by the one lore of; Do not abuse any thing?

Could one be living any more ethically than that?"

Yes, one could. By living by what I wrote earlier - and in the most-recent post above - one would be living more ethically than just avoiding a negative concept. In each situation in which one finds himself or herself one is to be mindful of: How can I create something of value? How can I make each person in this encounter feel like a winner? How can I be better than my previous self? How can I improve and grow (morally speaking)? 8)

Rather than "do not," have the attitude: "do." Do create value.
Do innovate. Do upgrade. Do create. Above all, love!

It drives out fear. It heals. It solves problems. :) :)

I wish you all A Quality Life!!!

[To find out what that specifically means, read the book.]
THE STRUCTURE OF ETHICS (2019)
http://www.myqol.com/wadeharvey/PDFs/TH ... ETHICS.pdf

Questions? Comments?
If you are NOT abusing any thing, then you are using EVERY thing correctly and properly.
Treating and using every thing how it is meant to be treated and used is what is right and good.
Therefore, by NOT abusing any thing you would be DOING what is true, right, and good in Life, which would obviously help in creating a much better Life, for EVERY one EQUALLY.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:42 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:28 pm
Maybe for the better because 'harm' is NECESSARY to fix and heal things.
OK. Then you can explain how failing to amputate and letting a patient die is necessary to fix and heal things.
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:28 pm
I have to cause and create much 'harm' in order to fix and heal the mess and damage that you are making.
A judge in a court of law would LOVE to hear this argument.

"I let him die in order to fix and heal the mess and damage that he was making"

I am sure that would go down well.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Age » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:54 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:42 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:28 pm
Maybe for the better because 'harm' is NECESSARY to fix and heal things.
OK. Then you can explain how failing to amputate and letting a patient die is necessary to fix and heal things.
LOL
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:42 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:28 pm
I have to cause and create much 'harm' in order to fix and heal the mess and damage that you are making.
A judge in a court of law would LOVE to hear this argument.

"I let him die in order to fix and heal the mess and damage that he was making"

I am sure that would go down well.
LOL

You really can NOT see, and get, past those thoughts and views swirling inside that head. You can NOT see any other than what you already believe is the truth.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:00 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:54 pm
You really can NOT see, and get, past those thoughts and views swirling inside that head. You can NOT see any other than what you already believe is the truth.
I am willing to be convinced. You offer no convincing argument.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Age » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:02 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:00 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:54 pm
You really can NOT see, and get, past those thoughts and views swirling inside that head. You can NOT see any other than what you already believe is the truth.
I am willing to be convinced. You offer no convincing argument.
LOL

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:31 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:02 pm
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:00 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:54 pm
You really can NOT see, and get, past those thoughts and views swirling inside that head. You can NOT see any other than what you already believe is the truth.
I am willing to be convinced. You offer no convincing argument.
LOL
You just let one of your patients die and now you re laughing about it. What an asshole!

surreptitious57
Posts: 4092
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:09 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:57 pm

Age wrote:
If you are NOT abusing any thing then you are using EVERY thing correctly and properly
Treating and using every thing how it is meant to be treated and used is what is right and good
Would a human being have to die if they could not abuse anything just to carry on living ?
Would allowing themselves to die when they could just carry on living not also be abuse ?

Are you absolutely sure that the way everything is meant to be treated is right and good ?
Is it not possible that the way some things are meant to be treated is not right and good ?

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Age » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:36 am

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:31 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:02 pm
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:00 pm

I am willing to be convinced. You offer no convincing argument.
LOL
You just let one of your patients die and now you re laughing about it. What an asshole!
Oh no I let a hypothetical patient die. You are free to care and cry about it all you want.

Age
Posts: 4665
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: How construct a sound Ethical Theory?

Post by Age » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:54 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:57 pm
Age wrote:
If you are NOT abusing any thing then you are using EVERY thing correctly and properly
Treating and using every thing how it is meant to be treated and used is what is right and good
Would a human being have to die if they could not abuse anything just to carry on living ?
Non-sensical question, to me. Have you missed a word in your question?

Can you ask it in another way?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:57 pm
Would allowing themselves to die when they could just carry on living not also be abuse ?
Irrelevant question.
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:57 pm
Are you absolutely sure that the way everything is meant to be treated is right and good ?
No.

Can you provide any examples of when treating a thing how it is meant to be treated is not right and not good?
surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:57 pm
Is it not possible that the way some things are meant to be treated is not right and good ?
Anything could be possible, but I can not think of any, can you?

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